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SailorAlea said:
What you "fail to notice" is apparently what my posts were all about. The lack of updates that you say were going "fine," the absence of the website/forum for months at a time with little to no explanation, and slow updates even without the website issues.

They were a pretty good indicator of what was going to happen.

In any case, as I've stated twice now, I wasn't "bashing" or "accusing" anyone of anything--I was talking probabilities.

It's a shame ZEQ2 died, most because of Super Vegetto--while modeling/skinning is an important part of making a mod, it's also usually the first thing done because if done by an experienced modeler, doesn't seem to take as long as coding. So you end up with the modeler doing much of their work early in development, and then if the mod goes under, all that work goes to waste. It's a pity, especially with a modeler as talented as SV.
I was talking about this recent time, everything after the website was up again. The were lots of updates, I know I've read about models like Goku, Raditz, maps, Server info, Flying Info, Cel-chading and lots more. The team even posted alot in the forums, answered questions and that a like.

Here's examples of mods/games where you can see indications of them maybe being closed down.

http://destiny.planethalflife.gamespy.com/
http://trif.flagrun.net/
http://npo.demonation.net/npo/

I saw none of that in ZEQ 2 "THE RECENT TIME".
Also note that I wasn't really directing my posts at you when I wrote them, I just saw all the nagging people posted and all "they are so lazy" comments and thought that I would share with me my opinions and my perspective on the whole thing.

And I do agree with you on your last point, I've seen that all to many times.
It's really sad, but it doesen't have to mean the end, just look at NNC this is like their 3 or 4 ressurection and they're still at it, looking better than ever.
(http://www.ninjachronicles.com/)
 
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SailorAlea said:
It's a shame ZEQ2 died, most because of Super Vegetto--while modeling/skinning is an important part of making a mod, it's also usually the first thing done because if done by an experienced modeler, doesn't seem to take as long as coding. So you end up with the modeler doing much of their work early in development, and then if the mod goes under, all that work goes to waste. It's a pity, especially with a modeler as talented as SV.
Thanks man.
I can assure you that we wanted to reach higher...
We really wanted, maybe the progress wasnt so smooth over the years but the team stayed dedicated to the project and kept on working.

I understand what you mean though, Alea, I know that you werent bushing ZEQ2...
I just wished it didnt end this way...I really saw ZEQ2 as something big for me and I wanted this project to reach it's maximum =[ but...perhaps it wasnt meant to be...

NinjApe, thats exactly what I meant, even though we had little progress we always kept on updating, and recently when the site was still up we had some material which we worked very hard to achive, from models to skins, to coding, mapping...etc.
 
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I admit I haven't really been keeping much track on ZEQ2's progress, but everything I did see was most impressive, and I was looking forward to trying it out someday.

In the end, it doesn't matter how a mod dies. What matters is all the work people put into it.

I don't think it was all a waste though. Undoubtedly, working on a mod teaches you many things - teamwork, discipline, new skills in what you do (modelling for SV, for instance) - plus it's fun, otherwise people wouldn't be doing it.

I seriously think ZEQ2 should think about making a non-DBZ-themed game. You could still use attacks and such, but just rename them, and create new characters. They could still be DBZ-ish, I bet, as long as they're not real DBZ characters.

I really hope the ZEQ2 team decides on this, otherwise everything they've completed so far has no use.
 
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Hi Super Vegetto...
Well I was pretty much the first who saw that ZEQ2 were killed (yes that's what funni did :/ )short before the shut down I was writing a forum post where I wanted to ask why now all images are offline... as I pressed "submit"
I saw the "The End of the Road " screen.. I was like O_O O_O I mean I couldn't believe it, I thought you would change the host or would have a new design or so...

Well after I realised it I went to your IRC channel and Zeth told me everything... and more and more people joined the channel and were totally buff.. I stayed like 3or4 hours in hope to see the message, that all this was just a stupid joke.. but ofcourse it wasn't.
I really can imagine how you and the rest of the team felt at the moment of shut down,
you guys worked 4 hard years on this game and at the last few weeks they really showed awesome REALLY awesome work.
And I really can't get it, why some people say that they just become lazy and closed the mod on their own...
A big F*** You @ Funimation

I still hope that there is any chance to bring ZEQ2 back ... but it won't happen.

I feel sorry for you and the others Super Vegetto. I hope that all team members stay and maybe you start an other great project..
 
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well it seems that this thread is all about Zeq2 now, i fell with the ZEQ2 because i had the same **** while working on a Kingdom hearts mod for hl2 and on a standalone game, those *****es just said: (in short form) **** you, its ours, we want money for it! so close yours so they wont get it for free.

though its right what they doing, look, if someone does your work and you may dont like it because people say, it's done by the person though all was yours, and thats only on point, to show it off.

When a company can get money from this copyrihgt, they will do everything to keep it accesable only in one way ( wich is to buy the game), so nobody could get it for free.





though it wuold be more awesome to redesign the characters, give every character a "x" to their name and then do a own story =P


but i really like companys wich allow to do it, because they see it all in the other way, like people are advertising for you and would love to play the original seeling game , so their going to buy it.

yeh my fav. mod =( http://trif.flagrun.net/
 
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The only thing id like to know is why Funni is shutting down a PC mod. I mean they dont sell **** on PC. What loss in sales would that bring to them. Nothing zero even less. All there profit comes from DVDs with the eps and movies and the games for the consoles. None of there income is from teh PC.

So how can they be afraid of loosing what they dont have O.O
 
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well to play a mod, you need the engine wich is based on the modification, so they need to buy hl1 for playing esf.

so the profit wont be on esf side but for the valve team.


also i?ve seen another point now, it?s see able that zeq2 got the point of puplic fame, so you see how the puplic react on this project, instead of saying: **** zeq2, we got the ps2 games wich we can buy. you think FUNI want to see that?


although i?ve talked with Kurai for a while, and it would be just smart if the FUNI team would give the Zeq2 team honorar till they?re finished and then getting it sold, but the profit would be on FUNI side. That idea came up by Kurai, though im sure hes not the only one, though what does a company wants with a q3 modded engine?
 
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There are some things that kinda dont let me belive in this whole tragic ending.
There are no laws saying that you cant make , and use a char resambling goku or gohan. I agrre that you cant name them as the dbz char and release them in a comercial way... but there is no way, someone will hold you from creating a character resambling dbz chara, as long as you name them GrRku and GrRhan... Funanimation has the trademark for dbz names, but not for all the models and funwork acros the web resambling DBZ...
If this whole theory about funimation is real, they should start shuting dawn all the dbz funfics and funwork across the web, same with the mods... ESF and DBZ HOOD (which is working on a exelent quality level) should be closed as well.BUt if this is realy a bad dream and you guys are getting wiped out by funi, you should defend your self! dont let your all hard work go for nothing, change the names a bit( but only the names) and let it all left in the hands of god. IF this funny is realy threating you with legal action you should study the law a bit and see for your self if they REALY have the right to shut you dawn, maybe they are just threating you?!?! imposible?? you might think again... And 1 very basic thing, if you where so envolved into zeq2, so it must mean that your priaority goal was to relase a playable version of your game, eint that true? If you would realy realy care about it, you would long ago change the names and remake some of the content, and voila you can still reach your primary goal. But if you dont even want to think about a solution like that , i will belive that this whole story with funi eint real. SV i wanna belive that zeq2 has been shut by funi, but this is just dosent making a sense... but if i see you saing that you wont take any action
into kinda rescuing your 3 years hard work i belive that this tragic ending is a fake. I just cant belive that some one will let hes 3 years hard work go for nothing...From 1 side your saying that you where SOO involved itno zeq2 and you would even give your life for it.... and from the other side your telling us " oh well i worked so hard for 3 years and now i wont do anything about the fact that i worked for nothing. That contrast, and acting like that is kinda fishy to me... sry SV couse i realy admire you and your work.
 
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Well you?re saying that Esf and DbzHood should be closed aswell, but in matter of fact they had a better eyecatcher on ZEq2 then on those 2 mods, because the Zeq2 Quality was even better then the Budokai games, so you really cant compare.
 
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tehzane said:
Hi Super Vegetto...
Well I was pretty much the first who saw that ZEQ2 were killed (yes that's what funni did :/ )short before the shut down I was writing a forum post where I wanted to ask why now all images are offline... as I pressed "submit"
I saw the "The End of the Road " screen.. I was like O_O O_O I mean I couldn't believe it, I thought you would change the host or would have a new design or so...

Well after I realised it I went to your IRC channel and Zeth told me everything... and more and more people joined the channel and were totally buff.. I stayed like 3or4 hours in hope to see the message, that all this was just a stupid joke.. but ofcourse it wasn't.
I really can imagine how you and the rest of the team felt at the moment of shut down,
you guys worked 4 hard years on this game and at the last few weeks they really showed awesome REALLY awesome work.
And I really can't get it, why some people say that they just become lazy and closed the mod on their own...
A big F*** You @ Funimation

I still hope that there is any chance to bring ZEQ2 back ... but it won't happen.

I feel sorry for you and the others Super Vegetto. I hope that all team members stay and maybe you start an other great project..
Thanks man, I really appreciate it.

At this moment, I'm dissapointed, heh...
How ever ZEQ2 really made me what I am =P it actually changed me a little since I came to these forums.
I improved in a lot of different ways, modeling and skinning is just a small part of it.
I'm glad that I got to be a part of the ZEQ2 project.

i will belive that this whole story with funi eint real. SV i wanna belive that zeq2 has been shut by funi, but this is just dosent making a sense
Like I said it's completly up to you if you want to believe this or not.
We posted the email we got from Dreamhost (which Funi contacted to shut us down) in our Irc channel.
If you're saying that we faked that too, then I guess it cant be helped.

but if i see you saing that you wont take any action into kinda rescuing your 3 years hard work i belive that this tragic ending is a fake. I just cant belive that some one will let hes 3 years hard work go for nothing...From 1 side your saying that you where SOO involved itno zeq2 and you would even give your life for it.... and from the other side your telling us " oh well i worked so hard for 3 years and now i wont do anything about the fact that i worked for nothing. That contrast, and acting like that is kinda fishy to me... sry SV couse i realy admire you and your work
Let me currect you, our work was not for nothing, the team gained ALOT from that project, and it's not just skills im talking about.
We dont intend to start fighting for it cause we know exactly where it's going to lead, absolutly no where, we didnt want to get a C&D next...

From 1 side your saying that you where SOO involved itno zeq2 and you would even give your life for it...
Did I say that? really?...quote please?
Nataku, please, I wouldnt die for a project.
It is true ZEQ2 was one of my biggest projects ever and I took it really seriously, but not to death >_>

Thanks for the support btw, Tryforce =]

For those who wonder what we're up to now?
The team is still together, we didnt fell apart.
We'll probably find a new project to work on, still no clue what might that be...
 
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For those that doubt we got contacted, see the email link in our irc channel, and contact our host's email address and/or send a letter to Courtney A. Rottman, Intellectual Property Enforcement, Legal Department, FUNimation entertainment. He/She's the person that got in contact with our site's host.

We did NOT stop because we got lazy. And when the site was down before for 6 months, we didn't stop then either. What we had began to show AFTER that downtime proves it.

We will definetly make use of the game code and other assets for something though. We arn't going to just throw away over 3 years of work down the drain.
 
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ZeQ2 had a great potential, but from reading this thread there's two things that come to my mind:

1.) Laziness actually did happen, therefore making an excuse. If they actually posted whatever letter they have recieved, then people here and there (I mean that randomly) could understand better. (I'm not bashing just saying my $0.02)

2.) Funimation actually closed 'em down for whatever reason.

Now, here's one more thing that happens to cross my mind:

3.) Couldn't ESF ask Vegetto to join the project? It could work and would make things nice and smooth, seeing as Vegetto is an awesome skinner/texturist. (I saw a preview of the Frieza and it looked cool.)
 
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Robby said:
ZeQ2 had a great potential, but from reading this thread there's two things that come to my mind:

1.) Laziness actually did happen, therefore making an excuse. If they actually posted whatever letter they have recieved, then people here and there (I mean that randomly) could understand better. (I'm not bashing just saying my $0.02)

2.) Funimation actually closed 'em down for whatever reason.

Now, here's one more thing that happens to cross my mind:

3.) Couldn't ESF ask Vegetto to join the project? It could work and would make things nice and smooth, seeing as Vegetto is an awesome skinner/texturist. (I saw a preview of the Frieza and it looked cool.)
You are forgetting that the Q3 engine has better quality model suport. While the ESF models are up to 1500 tris only
 
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not to mention that almost all the models are done now :p but maybe SV will consider releasing his trunks/gohan for the model replacer in 1.3 (me crosses fingers)

It'd be interesting to see what comes of Zeq2 now, I mean bfp just basically replaced the characters and attack names, would Zeq2 do the same? or take a new direction... Either way has its pro's/cons
 
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MDave said:
We will definetly make use of the game code and other assets for something though. We arn't going to just throw away over 3 years of work down the drain.
YEEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, I AS WELL AS MANY OTHERS REALLY WANT TO EXPERIENCE YOUR TEAM'S CREATIONS :yes:

Im pretty sure any future release will keep any interested, even a "certain person o_o " who doesn't care *cough* mf29 *cough*, i am mentioning no names :scared:
 
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I always followed zeq2 closely, its a damn shame it "died".(Or did it really? Hehe :p)

Anyway I think we expect more of the zeq2 team in the future.
 
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Davidskiwan said:
not to mention that almost all the models are done now :p but maybe SV will consider releasing his trunks/gohan for the model replacer in 1.3 (me crosses fingers)

It'd be interesting to see what comes of Zeq2 now, I mean bfp just basically replaced the characters and attack names, would Zeq2 do the same? or take a new direction... Either way has its pro's/cons
<3 David! :'3
 
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SailorAlea said:
I am merely scrutinizing their supposed 'reason' for abandoning the project.
Like many otheres, you need to read the info posted on www.zeq2.com a bit more carefully.

As for all the people who have mentioned the word lazy. You owe an apology.
 
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Killer22 said:
Like many otheres, you need to read the info posted on www.zeq2.com a bit more carefully.

As for all the people who have mentioned the word lazy. You owe an apology.
I read the vague notice, and I've already outlined the logically justified suspicions above. There's no need to engage me further, as my opinion has been voiced.
 
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I checked on the site fairly regularly, didn't see the "almost weekly updates" you're referring to.
Is that so? We have actually had either a media or text (alternating) update to account on the project every week on the day since the site has come back online since the 1 year planned (as stated clearly in the progress forum "website" thread) downtime. Initially the downtime was along the same lines as ESF (oktagone's shoddy hosting) but eventually benefited the team without the hassle for website/forum maintenence allowing us to work significantly faster over the downtime -- thus extending it.

Then why not publish it?
Why not release ZEQ2 as is? Simple. We'd have to recreate our content completely as to not be reconized, change the project name, include NO credits, and release completely anonymously over some file sharing or tracker. EVEN then though we wouldn't be able to provide the master global server that we had planned due to contraints. Furthermore, if they ever DID find out we were still working or if we ever DID release, we would face some very serious legal allegations. It's a huge risk.

Sorry that you feel you don't "owe" anything to the people you excited (myself not being one of them, but I'm sure there were many) over the years, but you're right--you don't "have" to do anything.
Interesting twist of SV's words, I'll give you that. He merely stated that we have no real requirement to defend ourselves against those that choose not to believe. We, however, do so at times to prevent a mob mentality to develop about a particular incident -- as could potentially be the case with this.

I'd say that the people who frequented your forum (when it was up) and wore ZEQ2 signatures had plenty of faith--and those were the people hurt by the "legal troubles." Not people like me.
So... you basically had no interest in the project whatsoever, knew a minimum about it, and based your opinion entirely from other mods/projects in general. Odd, that is. Had you actually known a bit about the project you would have known that ZEQ2 was unlike any mod/game in creation and as a result not comparable. Our goals stemmed far FAR deeper than merely DBZ-based aspects. The roots of the project were heavily based from config-driven interfaces that would allow any project to literaly create their games without the need or reliance on coders. We were attempting to save most mods from the ill-fated lack of coding knowledge by developing ours to a level of flexability that any average joe could use and develop on.

But hey, I guess you have complete rights to your own opinions and all. No offense intended, but it would probably be beneficial if you kept your thoughts to yourself if they don't effect you in some fashion though. It's one thing to dislike something, but it's an entirely different concept to openly address that contempt.

Let's hypothesize a similar situation. We shall assume you don't like a certain restaraunt because you do not enjoy fish. Would you honestly walk in and declare to the customers that they shouldn't eat here because you do not enjoy the products? I suppose you could. Thinking logically though, it would probably agitate the situation causing both issues with the management and customers.

If it would clearly benefit noone, has no real impact on you, and cause more issues than it could potentially help, why would you honestly want to propagate hatred?

Why would Funimation have given you one, but not mods that are actually out?
Once the ball is rolling and a game/mod is in mass distribution, it becomes quite a bit more difficult to actually stop the momentum. I assume by attacking a threatening game, such as ZEQ2, early on while in development, such issues of copies floating around anonymously could be avoided.

What troubles me is actually HOW they were contacted or how for that matter we were even found. ZEQ2 kept a VERY low profile as far things went. We declined all interviews/articles up to that point as well as keeping outside news pretty discrete. Our community was kept small for similar reasons. I suspect that we were probably reported (or the files were) manually by someone. At least that's the theory.

No, I'm afraid it's not narrowmindedness, it's "experience." I've seen dozens of mods fail--most do--and yours was no exception. Experience tells me, and with ESF and DMZ as precedent, that it's unlikely your mod was shut down by Funimation.
While the former part of your statement is completely true (mod's do use the legal babble as a scapegoat for inactivity or issues), having this mentality for all respects would null situations where it actually WAS true -- as is this one. Clearly you can look around at the evidence as many have pointed out. We had nothing but activity from our highly concentrated, skilled, and dedicated team.

...their marketing department had no idea what they were talking about--they had never sent any
If you're that concerned, I suggest you pick up the phone and give Funimation a call--and ask what happened.
Having such a confidence in your own words, surely you realize that Funimation probably outsources it's lawyers and, even in the event of a local legal department on-site, communication for legal affairs would probably be at a minimum. Funimation basically hires people to look out for it's intellectual property and leaves things at that.

Asking another department why it handled a certain legal affair a certain way would probably be fruitless. It's the equivalent of asking a police officer why he created a certain law. He didn't make the laws, he merely enforces those that were.

The fact that you guys are claiming that Funimation sent a cease and desist order is in itself suspicious--because, as people have said, ESF has been much more successful than ZEQ2 was, and has yet to receive any cease and desist orders. On the contrary, ESF has received special permission from people to use their intellectual property, like the main menu's use of one of Bruce Falconer's songs, the SSJ3 Accension Theme.
The fact that ESF has yet to recieve a C&D is partly because of it's engine attachments. From what I hear, Half-life has seperate licensing obligations to Steam as well as Valve. There are additional complications involved with handling a Cease & Desist in that regard.

Additionally, Funimation might not feel as much of a threat from ESF as it does ZEQ2. While ESF tramples any released DBZ game in terms of gameplay and mechanics, it does not do so in terms of graphical capability (due to the engine's limitations). Although I think some of us agree that gameplay and mechanics are primary factors in a game, the current market seems to say otherwise in favor of graphics being the favorite. ZEQ2 itself was probably deemed a threat to the current commercial DBZ games that are in development and released -- thus causing an effect on profits.

Also. As is with most composers, Bruce Faulconer was sub-contracted by Funimation to do the DBZ soundtrack. As a result he maintains rights independently to his musical works as well as far as granting permission.

I happen to think it's plainly obvious to see why ZEQ2 stopped...
Obvious, eh? Do share.

In the end, it doesn't matter how a mod dies. What matters is all the work people put into it.
This is all too true. What we've learned over the years on the project will stay with us forever. I personally appreciate comments such as these that have complete root to the primary benefit from working on a project with a group of individuals.

I seriously think ZEQ2 should think about making a non-DBZ-themed game. You could still use attacks and such, but just rename them, and create new characters. They could still be DBZ-ish, I bet, as long as they're not real DBZ characters.
ZEQ2's roots were heavily based on DBZ. Changing the shear level of accuracy we were striving for would not allow us to create the same game. We had already ignored all creative ideas in favor of strict DBZ series ones. Without the strict accuracy towards DBZ, we are nothing.

It'd be interesting to see what comes of Zeq2 now, I mean bfp just basically replaced the characters and attack names, would Zeq2 do the same? or take a new direction... Either way has its pro's/cons
Given the legal severity and serious nature of the charges, I am not completely convinced that BFP did truely recieve a C&D. The letters we have recieved are quite clear in the allegations and consequences for violating them. It'd be a huge risk, regardless. At this moment we are being watched by Funimation's legal department. Our actions will need to reflect their desires to avoid complications.

ESF is well protected by the Fair Use Act.
While "fair use" is the most common defense to copyright infringement, a court case would nevertheless be REQUIRED to prove it (or any defense whatsoever). These would literally mean thousands of dollars to handle court fee's and hire an attorney. Even with finances available, the four key areas that are examined in copyright cases would usually point the offender downhill -- which can actually cause more severe issues such as signing legal documentation prohibiting excessive development on any intellectial property of the defender in general; not to mention loss of money for the trial.
 

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