Left 4 Dead Multiplayer/Versus Advice?

[J-Dude]

I'm at least a casual gamer, I have some favorite games but really haven't played as many as I'd like, but Valve games occupy nearly every facet of my understanding of what "good games" really are and should be.

I love Left 4 Dead and think it truly deserved it's game of the year status, and I look forward to the upcoming sequel and DLC.

However, while in, say, Team Fortress 2 I'm easily just as good if not better than most players, the same doesn't appeared to have held true yet for L4D. This is particularly evident during versus mode.

I don't see myself as doing any less than anyone else as a Survivor to hep the team make it to the end, but **** happens, and I've been kicked a number of times without understanding why.

I know how L4D works, stick together, avoid special infected, free Survivors that get snared. I do notice certain things I have little control over.

Friendly Fire: In the midst of a zombie Hellstorm, it's almost impossible to check your fire. And if you have an auto shotgun? Forget it, you can't fire within the same 45 degrees around a teammate without them getting hit by a pellet. But somehow I get complaints about it, and somehow people avoid doing it much to me.

Boomers: If I'm not puked on by them by surprise, then one gets too close, and I have no choice but to shoot the bastard while he's among some of my team. People say "don't shoot them, melee them", but just how in a tight small area can you boot him far enough away to kill him without consequence before he just turns around and vomits on you?

Hunters: Or more specifically, allies getting pounced by Hunters. People complain when I try shooting a Hunter that's pounced a teammate, but I do that WHILE running to melee. I figure, if you're far off, it's gonna be quicker to shoot than run all the way over.

Car Alarms: This is just plain bad damn luck. The last bad match I was in, I turned a corner and shot some infected, and a car that nobody had noticed before behind them got triggered. Everyone but me got incapped, one guy was smokered 100 yards away. Zombies swarming everywhere. Trying to fight them off while picking up the closer Survivors. Everyone dies, we go back to lobby screen, I get kicked.

And then playing as Infected. I always seem to score lowest. I know you're supposed to hit Survivors opportunistically, but that happens so rarely sometimes there's no opening for a Hunter to be effective. I've gotten the "25 point pounce" a few times though. Boomer I can do under good circumstances, but usually there's no good place for me to surprise from that's close to them, and almost always they know where I am the moment I make a sound. Smoker isn't too bad, but there's never a real way of knowing the Smoker's range, so often I'll spawn on a close rooftop, and find I'm just too far away to snag anyone I can see.

If I'm half as bad as some of the ****bites who play L4D try to insist I am, then I have to be missing something here.

Anything to say, anyone?

 

[john_volkov]

first off I realy like left 4 dead , but I like campaning more because there arn't rage quiters there anyway , my favorit weapon is the shotgun , bouth of them when I shot the shotgun it's more like an Art then playing.As for the other ones if you play infected you will need to work as a team , you only attack if some one is boomed or if some one has left their friends.As for Friendly fire a lot of expert mode in campain realy makes you an expert shooter , i don't do much ff damage because I know when to shot and when to stop, the hardest thing about Friendly fire is when some one is jumping in your crosshair.

 

[Pain]

I love Left 4 Dead and think it truly deserved it's game of the year status, and I look forward to the upcoming sequel and DLC.

The DLC for L4D1 is a joke. Just crap they throw at us to say "See? We kept out promise!"

Friendly Fire: In the midst of a zombie Hellstorm, it's almost impossible to check your fire. And if you have an auto shotgun? Forget it, you can't fire within the same 45 degrees around a teammate without them getting hit by a pellet. But somehow I get complaints about it, and somehow people avoid doing it much to me.

The auto shotgun is more accurate than you think at close and medium ranges. Aim off towards the side if you're peeling zombies off your team mates with it and you'll hit them much less. Also don't be afraid of giving a couple shots right at your team mate if he's being swarmed by a lot of zombies, you'll do less damage than he would have taken.

Boomers: If I'm not puked on by them by surprise, then one gets too close, and I have no choice but to shoot the bastard while he's among some of my team. People say "don't shoot them, melee them", but just how in a tight small area can you boot him far enough away to kill him without consequence before he just turns around and vomits on you?

When you melee a boomer he loses control for a good 3 to 5 seconds. He also gets pushed far enough back that if you simply wait, you'll be able to shoot him without him getting you. In a tight area, as I mentioned, the boomer loses control if you melee him, so you can just get away from him then shoot. The only time I shoot a boomer near my team mates is if he's already gotten one and will get the others anyway.

Hunters: Or more specifically, allies getting pounced by Hunters. People complain when I try shooting a Hunter that's pounced a teammate, but I do that WHILE running to melee. I figure, if you're far off, it's gonna be quicker to shoot than run all the way over.

Shoot on approach, melee when you can if he's not already dead. People may get mad at you if you only shoot and don't try to get near them, if you can.

Car Alarms: This is just plain bad damn luck. The last bad match I was in, I turned a corner and shot some infected, and a car that nobody had noticed before behind them got triggered. Everyone but me got incapped, one guy was smokered 100 yards away. Zombies swarming everywhere. Trying to fight them off while picking up the closer Survivors. Everyone dies, we go back to lobby screen, I get kicked.

Cars that have alarms on them will have flashing headlights. Every map with the possible exception to crash course, the cars are always in the same spot. Just learn the locations.

And then playing as Infected. I always seem to score lowest. I know you're supposed to hit Survivors opportunistically, but that happens so rarely sometimes there's no opening for a Hunter to be effective. I've gotten the "25 point pounce" a few times though. Boomer I can do under good circumstances, but usually there's no good place for me to surprise from that's close to them, and almost always they know where I am the moment I make a sound. Smoker isn't too bad, but there's never a real way of knowing the Smoker's range, so often I'll spawn on a close rooftop, and find I'm just too far away to snag anyone I can see.

Infected points mean nothing. It's all about working with your team.

Opportunism is always important, but there are some basic strategies you can use if the other team isn't completely suckass.

As a hunter your role is to deal damage. The more damage you deal, the slower the survivors walk, the more time you have to put them down. Go for high damage pounces whenever you can. Pouncing someone point blank is worthless if the other survivors are nearby. If you can 25 one survivor, even if you die immediately afterward, it's worth it. Also don't neglect your slash attack. If a survivor can be slashed and put down, peg him as your top priority. Most often however, you'll just be pouncing on confused survivors after they've been boomed.

There's not much to be said about the smoker. Pick off stragglers, pull people into car alarms or witches. Yank the last survivor who isn't boomed. Basically, you're the support. The smoker is very useful in certain situations however, there are several spots where you can pull a survivor to instantly incap or even kill him, as well as certain areas where if you get one survivor as the others are moving on, they won't be able to save him.

As boomer the one thing you need to learn is timing your spawn. Wait until the last possible moment to spawn and vomit on the survivors, otherwise you make too much noise and a good player will blow you away every time. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, around a corner they're coming up to works fine.

As a tank, do not simply rush in and attack the survivors. You need to stall for time so your team can do damage. Do this by keeping line of sight with at least one survivor and throw rocks at an angle where they can't fire back, or have a hard time seeing you. If you can see a survivor your rage meter won't decrease, and if you hit a survivor your rage meter goes back to full. The goal is to chip away as much as you can with rocks and opportunistic punches. The longer you stay alive, the more damage your team can do.

 

[-Origin]

As a tank, do not simply rush in and attack the survivors. You need to stall for time so your team can do damage. Do this by keeping line of sight with at least one survivor and throw rocks at an angle where they can't fire back, or have a hard time seeing you. If you can see a survivor your rage meter won't decrease, and if you hit a survivor your rage meter goes back to full. The goal is to chip away as much as you can with rocks and opportunistic punches. The longer you stay alive, the more damage your team can do.

Hah, been playing L4D since it came out and I had no idea it worked like this. Admittingly, I play more Campaign than Versus but I always thought you had to keep attacking in order for the rage meter to stop depleting. :O

Must try this!

 

[J-Dude]

The DLC for L4D1 is a joke. Just crap they throw at us to say "See? We kept out promise!"

I wasn't going to say anything about the recent L4D2 arguments, but you're forcing my hand here. Valve doesn't owe us ANYTHING, and IF anything, we owe them big. The Orange Box was just about the greatest deal in gaming history. For their quality, I'd think games like TF2 and Portal ought to be nearly full price, but Valve had the generosity and good business sense to package all that for the price of a single full retail game. And then they even offered metric ass-loads of free DLC for Team Fortress 2, which they have zero obligation to have done to begin with.

Left 4 Dead was excellent, an experiment that went wildly right, and deserved it's Game of The Year title well. They promised DLC and delivered the Survival mode, a mode that REALLY got me playing L4D. And six or so months later? Crash Course campaign, and the announcement that it was the first of several mini-campaigns linking the Left 4 Dead story together.

Call that what you want, but they delivered, and as always, they delivered QUALITY. And in a month or so, Left 4 Dead 2 is coming out, an equally deserving game by the looks of it, and you and any other boy-cotters need to sit down and shut the **** up about it.

You've NEVER disliked a Valve game and eagerly wait for each new thing they make, but now that they're making a sequel LESS than five years after the original, even while the DLC on the original is still rolling, NOW you're going to bite the hand that's been feeding you??

All these boycotters are little more than entitled little children whining that they were taken out for ice cream when they wanted to go to the toy store. Valve has spoiled you, and I wouldn't blame them if they turned the car around, dropped your pants and smacked your asses red.

As a tank, do not simply rush in and attack the survivors. You need to stall for time so your team can do damage. Do this by keeping line of sight with at least one survivor and throw rocks at an angle where they can't fire back, or have a hard time seeing you. If you can see a survivor your rage meter won't decrease, and if you hit a survivor your rage meter goes back to full. The goal is to chip away as much as you can with rocks and opportunistic punches. The longer you stay alive, the more damage your team can do.

As to your advice, I've been watching some videos and practicing more, especially the Hunters secondary which is a 10hp hit. It's been helping me a lot. This advice about the Tank is REALLY great though. My understanding was that the Tank's rage meter just kept draining and that it was destined to die if you didn't act quick. I've always been able to do alright when I get a chance as Tank, but this line of sight thing was something I never knew.

So in short, great advice.

 

[Pain]

The problem with being so high up on your pillar of moral superiority is that you lose sight of what's really going on. Most of the anti-boycott crowd tend to just take the easy road and attack the strawman. I don't blame you, it's probably the only side of the argument you've really been exposed to.

So let's take it from the top. You make two very basic points, DLC and entitlement.

First of all, criticism and entitlement are not the same thing. As I mentioned previously, the DLC for L4D1 is a complete joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're unplayable or that you cant have fun on them, but they shouldn't have taken nearly as long as they did to come out. Survival mode is a weeks worth of effort at the most, and I can't for the life of me understand how anyone believes that the Crash Course campaign actually took them six months to complete, coupled with the fact that it's still littered with bugs. It's painfully obvious that L4D1 is on the way out, with the possibility of a few more sprinkles of half-assed DLC still to come so they can avoid the bad publicity. It's damage control. Criticism, not entitlement.

The other common thing to say is Valve is great we owe them so much they don't owe us anything etc. etc. etc. Yes, I've enjoyed other Valve games, but the other Valve games are not the issue here. Example time!

You go to a nice restaurant and order great food. It's delicious so you keep coming back. One day you go and try the chef's daily special only to find someone took a steaming pile of **** on the plate. Well, they've been good up till now so you shouldn't say anything. That's pretty much what that argument boils down to. Ridiculous.

What does L4D2 have that couldn't be DLC? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is by far the biggest gripe most people have with it. It's a blatant money grab by Valve which will destroy L4D1, which leaves a lot of people feeling ripped off considering how young the game is.

Before you reply you should note that I enjoyed L4D1, which is all the more reason I'm upset with the way Valve has handled this. You should also note that I never mentioned that L4D2 will be a bad game, or that it should have been free DLC, only that it should have been DLC.

 

[john_volkov]

I am with Pain 100%I feal the same way with that, i was preaty lucky got it on an offer 30 Euro

 

[J-Dude]

The problem with being so high up on your pillar of moral superiority is that you lose sight of what's really going on. Most of the anti-boycott crowd tend to just take the easy road and attack the strawman. I don't blame you, it's probably the only side of the argument you've really been exposed to.

So let's take it from the top. You make two very basic points, DLC and entitlement.

First of all, criticism and entitlement are not the same thing. As I mentioned previously, the DLC for L4D1 is a complete joke. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're unplayable or that you cant have fun on them, but they shouldn't have taken nearly as long as they did to come out. Survival mode is a weeks worth of effort at the most, and I can't for the life of me understand how anyone believes that the Crash Course campaign actually took them six months to complete, coupled with the fact that it's still littered with bugs. It's painfully obvious that L4D1 is on the way out, with the possibility of a few more sprinkles of half-assed DLC still to come so they can avoid the bad publicity. It's damage control. Criticism, not entitlement.

The other common thing to say is Valve is great we owe them so much they don't owe us anything etc. etc. etc. Yes, I've enjoyed other Valve games, but the other Valve games are not the issue here. Example time!

You go to a nice restaurant and order great food. It's delicious so you keep coming back. One day you go and try the chef's daily special only to find someone took a steaming pile of **** on the plate. Well, they've been good up till now so you shouldn't say anything. That's pretty much what that argument boils down to. Ridiculous.

What does L4D2 have that couldn't be DLC? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is by far the biggest gripe most people have with it. It's a blatant money grab by Valve which will destroy L4D1, which leaves a lot of people feeling ripped off considering how young the game is.

Before you reply you should note that I enjoyed L4D1, which is all the more reason I'm upset with the way Valve has handled this. You should also note that I never mentioned that L4D2 will be a bad game, or that it should have been free DLC, only that it should have been DLC.

Oh, I say bah to your baw. I think you're nobody to say how long it ought to take Valve to produce a mini campaign or a new game mode. I like Crash Course and have encountered no supposed bugs in it, and I think getting anything at all is generous.

As to how L4D2 will or won't overshadow it's still-popular predecessor, I can agree I'd like to see the two games interact with each other, or else, that L4D2 would have access to all the campaigns and characters from L4D if you already possess a copy of L4D, maybe even bundle them together. I've grown fond of the original cast of characters and I'd hate to see them left behind after only a year. But if popular demand is high, I imagine Valve would cater to that somehow, even if it's only an update or DLC after the game is released.

 

[Pain]

Oh, I say bah to your baw. I think you're nobody to say how long it ought to take Valve to produce a mini campaign or a new game mode. I like Crash Course and have encountered no supposed bugs in it, and I think getting anything at all is generous.

Again, free content does not mean it's immune to criticism, it's a moot point how generous they are.

All I'm doing is using common sense. Survival mode is a roped off section on already existing maps with a timer slapped on, with an added extremely petite map. Perhaps a week is indeed too short of an estimate, how about a month to be fair? It still took them longer than that.

The fact that they made five full campaigns for L4D2 in, according to Valve, roughly the same time it took them to come up with Crash Course, a two map campaign, is proof enough that they aren't really trying on L4D1.

As for Crash Course bugs:
Tanks very rarely spawn anywhere but during the escape event. Witches are much more common. Typically they're meant to be 50/50.
Sections on most rooftops are inaccessible to the infected. This is a problem shared by the other maps to varying degrees as well. (invisilbe walls)
Item density was far too high.
Survivors could go into "rescue closets" where the infected could not follow.
The achievements weren't tracking correctly. (reset on game close)

There are a few more but that was just off the top of my head.

 

[J-Dude]

Again, free content does not mean it's immune to criticism, it's a moot point how generous they are.

All I'm doing is using common sense. Survival mode is a roped off section on already existing maps with a timer slapped on, with an added extremely petite map. Perhaps a week is indeed too short of an estimate, how about a month to be fair? It still took them longer than that.

The fact that they made five full campaigns for L4D2 in, according to Valve, roughly the same time it took them to come up with Crash Course, a two map campaign, is proof enough that they aren't really trying on L4D1.

As for Crash Course bugs:
Tanks very rarely spawn anywhere but during the escape event. Witches are much more common. Typically they're meant to be 50/50.
Sections on most rooftops are inaccessible to the infected. This is a problem shared by the other maps to varying degrees as well. (invisilbe walls)
Item density was far too high.
Survivors could go into "rescue closets" where the infected could not follow.
The achievements weren't tracking correctly. (reset on game close)

There are a few more but that was just off the top of my head.

Valve doesn't exactly have unlimited resources, even the TeamFortress blogs reported they were rallying most of the team to finish up the sequel.

Also, of COURSE the new DLC campaign has bugs, everything does in the initial release, Valve are not exempt from that.

And fine, let's say they didn't give it their all, that's about one time out of 20.

Look, obviously Valve has a lot of faith in Left 4 Dead and want to see to it that it reaches it's optimum potential. I'd agree that L4D2 would have fit into everything best as DLC, even paid DLC, but given how many freebies they've been handing out and how empty their game-release lineup looks as of now after the sequel is released, I can understand if they want to remain buoyant on a steady flow of cash this year given we've heard nothing from Valve about HL2:Ep3 since after the Orange Box was released two mother-dunking years ago. I'm sure it just means they want to surprise us, but there wasn't even E3 mention of anything beyond L4D2, so I won't be surprised if we don't hear word 1 until at least this time next year.

So if you're looking for validation, then yes, sure, Left 4 Dead 2 is a blatant money grab, but by God, I work hard for to earn my money, and Valve works even harder to earn my money, and by God do they do it every time. So sure Valve, if you're in need of a boost this year, I will gladly add my considerably-more-than-two-cents to what I'd like to refer to as the ****ing-Awesome-Games-Fund ^_^ . Keep shining, you crazy diamond

 

[john_volkov]

If Valve wanted to do someting special for L4D 1 it sould be fixing bugs and balancing the game play , not 2 maps that even the comunity made beter then those maps with lesser bugs, and if you are a good l4d player you will know what's Pain's Pain