Kids' TV gone wrong.

[Avenger]

Umm, that is false and it's the other way around. The terrorist organizations that are based in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories are the ones who fire rockets into Israel and kill Israeli citizens. In fact there were recent rocket attacks on a place called Sderot, and some rockets were sent to a university in Israel as well, which killed a student there. One of my cousin's brothers was killed in a rocket attack in Israel even.

He was likely confusing Lebanon with Palestine. Israel fires missiles at civilians in there regularly.

Another thing is these videos are not new. Let me direct you guys to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8eVnY-h7Oo&feature=user. Alan Dershowitz is a supporter of Israel, but he is also very knowledgeable on the events going on in the Middle East as well, and this video explains the motives behind the Muslim world when they put out this kind of stuff, not only videos, but cartoons similar to what a Dutch newspaper put out making fun of Mohamed, which is addressed in the video.

This video is a hot topic now. Don't try correcting me unless you live in Scandinavia, and read our newspapers. The cartoon itself (the Danish one) is old. I am somewhat confused on whether you believe the cartoon to have been Dutch, because it's not. The whole thing is an effect of a cartoon made by a Danish artist. I do agree with a lot of what's said in your link though.

I think what America is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan has nothing to do with this type of stuff. Yes, we are doing some bad and stupid things over there, but we're not forcing them to change their religion or killing them in the name of God. Hell, they're killing themselves off more then we're killing them, but most of this stuff is directed at Israel. There was a video similar to this one where there was a Mickey Mouse copy in the same setting telling kids that they should martyr themselves for Mohamed and kill Israelis. And if you watch the video I posted, you'll see that the Palestinian government publishes anti-Israel and anti-Semitic cartoons almost every day.

Technically this has to do with what that Palestine TV-show is doing to kids, and that it's teaching them to kill those who do not agree with their point of view. I know it includes Israel as well, but that's given, considering it's Palestine we're talking about here.

The US is not doing something "right" by fighting Muslim extremists, because they're not actually fighting Muslim extremists. They're fighting Muslims who have been informed by their leaders that the West wants to kill them all, and that they make fun of their religion. If the US was killing Muslim extremists, this would not be a problem, because all the Muslim extremists would then be dead.

What should be done in my opinion is have a nice long talk with all of the Islamic countries, so that we can agree on what is right and what is not. If they expect "us" to play ball, they have to play ball as well.

 

[Synth]

He was likely confusing Lebanon with Palestine. Israel fires missiles at civilians in there regularly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5182564.stm
http://leninology.blogspot.com/2006/07/israel-kills-more-in-lebanon-media.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14040.htm

 

[Avenger]

Synth wins.

 

[J-Dude]

Umm, that is false and it's the other way around. The terrorist organizations that are based in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories are the ones who fire rockets into Israel and kill Israeli citizens. In fact there were recent rocket attacks on a place called Sderot, and some rockets were sent to a university in Israel as well, which killed a student there. One of my cousin's brothers was killed in a rocket attack in Israel even.

Another thing is these videos are not new. Let me direct you guys to this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=n8eVnY-h7Oo&feature=user. Alan Dershowitz is a supporter of Israel, but he is also very knowledgeable on the events going on in the Middle East as well, and this video explains the motives behind the Muslim world when they put out this kind of stuff, not only videos, but cartoons similar to what a Dutch newspaper put out making fun of Mohamed, which is addressed in the video.

I think what America is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan has nothing to do with this type of stuff. Yes, we are doing some bad and stupid things over there, but we're not forcing them to change their religion or killing them in the name of God. Hell, they're killing themselves off more then we're killing them, but most of this stuff is directed at Israel. There was a video similar to this one where there was a Mickey Mouse copy in the same setting telling kids that they should martyr themselves for Mohamed and kill Israelis. And if you watch the video I posted, you'll see that the Palestinian government publishes anti-Israel and anti-Semitic cartoons almost every day.

In my opinion there is no other way to deal with people like that, so for one I think the U.S. is doing something right, because they are fighting Islamic extremists who DO believe this stuff. I also think that what Israel has done in the past is right, because honestly there isn't another way to deal with people who publish videos and cartoons that are violent and encourage children to kill.

Well said, man.

And really, as far as us invading them and impeding on their culture, none of that is Bush's fault directly. We were attacked because we support Israel, and largly by Afghanistan after their kids grew up thinking the aftermath of the covert war which ended the Cold War, in which we helped the Hell out of the Afghans, was OUR doing. The fact that we chose to end it quick and dirty, not bothering to show the Afghans our goodwill by paying for reparations where the Soviets had devastated them, is also likely a great deal that we are such large targets to them ASIDE from their ultimate enemy, Israel.

Thing is, we support their enemy, we helped them for a while (and gave them a Hell of an arsenal compared to the previous status quo) and then we left and let them stew. Then came the failed car bomb at the WTC. A near equal number of years later, they get it right and cause all the horrors of 9/11. The fact is, ideals of vengeance aside, I still think it's right that we've gone in there to try and fix this situation, because like Cuc' said, they're just going to keep on coming. It's their way. God knows they can hold a Hell of a grudge, for a long Goddamn time. I think it's good that we're facing the problem and at least TRYING to do something about it, though I fully admit that our sudden focus shift from Afghanistan, where it's all going down, to Iraq, was a complete and unecessary mis-step.

If you ask me, at the VERY least we need confirm Bin Laden is dead, whether we still need to make that a reality, or we simply find out he's expired in his hidey hole. But what we NEED to be doing is turning their tactic around and playing missionary with their children. Not in the sense of eliminating their Islamic beliefs, but in the sense of disillusioning them of the extremist ideals being planted in their minds. Get to them young and let them know the truth. I don't like the idea of interfering with belief systems any more than any of you, but while I think the base Muslim belief is and SHOULD be as placid as the Muslims who live right here in the USA, this extremist, murderous train of thought is a poison, manipulated by extremists, and being intriduced into the impressionable youth of the region, and when "religious" ideals are being used as weapons, to create more "holy warriors" to go and suicide bomb innocent people, then that needs to be stopped at it's source. If all we do is get that extremist propaganda out of their media, I'll think it's a suitable victory.

 

[sub]

If you ask me, at the VERY least we need confirm Bin Laden is dead, whether we still need to make that a reality, or we simply find out he's expired in his hidey hole. But what we NEED to be doing is turning their tactic around and playing missionary with their children. Not in the sense of eliminating their Islamic beliefs, but in the sense of disillusioning them of the extremist ideals being planted in their minds. Get to them young and let them know the truth. I don't like the idea of interfering with belief systems any more than any of you, but while I think the base Muslim belief is and SHOULD be as placid as the Muslims who live right here in the USA, this extremist, murderous train of thought is a poison, manipulated by extremists, and being intriduced into the impressionable youth of the region, and when "religious" ideals are being used as weapons, to create more "holy warriors" to go and suicide bomb innocent people, then that needs to be stopped at it's source. If all we do is get that extremist propaganda out of their media, I'll think it's a suitable victory.

Study history. Us announcing that we've killed Bin Laden will do nothing but create a martyr out of him, and that's the last thing we want to do. I'm of the opinion that Bin Laden is already dead, but we just haven't felt the need to tell anyone about it.

 

[Synth]

Study history. Us announcing that we've killed Bin Laden will do nothing but create a martyr out of him, and that's the last thing we want to do. I'm of the opinion that Bin Laden is already dead, but we just haven't felt the need to tell anyone about it.

That is clearly the case in this situation.

We all know how much Johnny Smith, the born-again Christian, would be celebrated as a 'hero' if he died in Iraq.

How dare we let them celebrate their heroes, too?

 

[Barney]

I am somewhat confused on whether you believe the cartoon to have been Dutch, because it's not.

I forgot where it was from...I think I get Dutch and Danish mixed up a lot.

They're fighting Muslims who have been informed by their leaders that the West wants to kill them all, and that they make fun of their religion.

What should be done in my opinion is have a nice long talk with all of the Islamic countries, so that we can agree on what is right and what is not. If they expect "us" to play ball, they have to play ball as well.

Doesn't that make then Islamic extremists as well if they follow what their leaders tell them to do? They could choose not to do it and not to kill people. And from experience in Israeli peace talks, talking to the Islamic countries doesn't seem to do much good.

@Synth - Okay the war a couple years ago in Lebanon was pretty bad on Israel's side, but you are taking from sources that are very anti-Semitic (well in BBC's case at least). Here's another video from Alan Dershowitz: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZZg90xYxDew. Go to the 3 minute mark and you will see what I am talking about. Israel usually takes the most humane route when it comes to war and dealing with terrorists. Yes, some civilians have been killed, but it's not done intentionally like terrorist attacks are done, to destroy human life.

I also find the fact that most of your sources tend to say that Israel hit houses that did not belong to Hezbollah. I don't know if you know this, but Israel has one of the best army intelligence corps in the world. I do not believe that Israel intentionally bombed houses that did not belong to Hezbollah.

The second article/blog you posted is one of the most anti-semitic things I have ever seen, and I wouldn't count it as a good source since it is extremely biased. And getting information on Israel by someone who calls themselves Lenin is usually a good sign that this guy is going to outwardly attack Israel.

The reason Israel started a war with Lebanon is because Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers (I think there are 4 more soldiers that have also been previously captured by them) and they were firing rockets into Israel, into major cities like Haifa and Tiberius. Wouldn't you be a little pissed if that happened to your country?

 

[Avenger]

I'm not anti-Jew, but I'm anti-Israel. Does that make me an anti-Semite?

 

[Grega]

I'm not anti-Jew, but I'm anti-Israel. Does that make me an anti-Semite?

Strong opinion. But you say it like i would say "The USA is inhabited only by rapists, murderers and drugdealers"

Not everyone in Israel think with their fists. But the fact is that if a person you believe is telling the trouth tells you to do something (lets say the evil people who want to kill you) youll do it.

Mind you that before 9/11 the idea about war on terrorism was not even dreamed up. After 9/11 because of 1 single terrorist organisation the whole world goes to war against them because of one single attack by one single group.

Mind you if the attack failed it would have been blown off and forgotten untill the next one came.

So dont judge whole countrys based on the people that live there. Not everyone is like that you know.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Let me remind people that this is only a Palestine show, not a "Muslim" show. Most Muslims do not watch this, nor would they want their children to. In one way, I made this topic to see who had prejudice against Muslims (although the ones who are responsible for that show classify themselves as such, I doubt most actual Muslims would agree). Apparently, some people (Cuc, Raven) think that all Muslims are horrible people who want their children to kill western society.

In my perspective, it seems like your government (the US government) has persuaded a great deal of people that the middle east does not want peace, and that their main goal is to annihilate and or convert the west. I'm fairly sure that's what fundamentalist Christians believe, along with all the fanatics.

Rather than fight fire with fire, how about fighting fire with water for once?

Since when am I a Christian Fundamentalist?

I believe ***s should be allowed to marry. I believe in separation of religeon and state. I don't generally agree with 90% of evangelical christianity.

You really should stop thinking for me, or I'm going to start thinking you don't like me. ;/

Now, with that out of the way, let me elaborate my opinion.

I know quite a few muslims, and I am quite alright with them. Examples include people on this forum; being cheif amongst them. I have no problem with islamic faith. I never had and I never will.

Radical Islamic Jihadist, on the other hand, are a problem. Just as radical Judaism, and radical Christianity are. I do not differentiate between the three, all three are enemies of free thought. All three desire to see the destruction of the way of life we have here in America.

I have long been a detractor of organized religeon. On one hand it's good to teach others the faith, but ultimately it is a journey one must complete alone. Otherwise, you will find yourself prey to those who manipulate that religeon. In the middle east, in israel, in the south and midwest united states these are all problems. Radical Islam teaches to enslave or kill non-believers. Judaism teaches to enslave and kill non-believers. Radical Christianity calls on them to kill heretics and witches and does not forbid slavery.

* * * * *​

Now that thats out of the way. Lets talk about radical islam. Their goal is an islamic super state, they all want it (jihadist and radicals, mind you, not the average muslim, before I get accused of that again). They all want to dictate the terms to the rest of the world. Then per their own quo'ran, they will give all christians and jews a choice:

1) Conversion and Slavery
2) Death

It really is that simple.

The worst thing the west could have done, was make Israel out of arab territory, though even that is disputed. Follow related videos from the one you posted, there's one where an Islamic fundamentalist believes that the world is flat, that the moon is half the size of the sun, and that both revolve around the earth. According to him, science is heresy. Christians and Jews, to different degrees, believe the same way on differnt things (like dinosaurs not existing and ufos not being possible because they aren't mentioned).
The point being that they have a blind faith set up for them and coupled with poor education, it ensures that radicalism will endure.

Now, I know more about that video than you think. It is a hamas production, hamas is a radical jihadist group that currently rules Palestine. They OPENLY stated that their goal is to rule the world through islam. That's not prejudice from me, that's fact. They said so in their first public speech after becoming the dominating political force in Palistine.

That being said, I do believe that there land should be given back to them. Not all of it, but some of it. Clearly, the jews have historical right to that land as well.

Further, Hamas has decried all the peace efforts that were working their way to fruition in that conflict. They, like Iran, call for the unconditional destruction of the Israelis. So pour water on that all you like, they will not stop hating or trying to destroy.

Similarly, we let a little jihadist group go for eight years. Only clashing with them when they obstructed food delivery to poor, hungry muslims in Somalia. We all know how that turned out. I lost two people in 9/11 in my family, and there were thousands of other lost as well. We obviously cannot ignore them, or they will be back.

One day, they'll be back with atomic weaponry. I'm sure of it. I'll try to pour water on that too.

Now, this is going to be your first, last, and only warning. Insult or belittle me again without provocation, and I will retaliate with with warnings instead of treating you like you treat me. Understand? Last time I let it go and simply continued off your tone, but I'm not in the mood to do that again.

 

[Barney]

If you're asking me Avenger, then no I do not think you are anti-Semitic. But I would like to know why you are anti-Israel, just out of curiosity.

Judaism teaches to enslave and kill non-believers.

I hope you mean radical Judaism and not actual Judaism, because it says absolutely nowhere in the Torah (Old Testament) to enslave and kill people who do not believe in the religion. I'm pretty sure that radical Judaism doesn't believe in that either. Radical Jews actually think that there shouldn't be a Jewish state until the Messiah comes and have had meeting with the Iranian government and other anti-Israel countries.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Yes, I meant radical judaism. And it actually does say such things, read Leviticus.

 

[Synth]

Is it possible this 'Jewish state' (possibly known as Zion) is being hidden behind the Christian-Right in America... until they believe they have summoned 'The Messiah'?

 

[Deman]

Is it possible this 'Jewish state' (possibly known as Zion) is being hidden behind the Christian-Right in America... until they believe they have summoned 'The Messiah'?

Now this would be scary considering it might be a sign that I shouldn't have left the faith that I abandoned...

 

[DiebytheSword]

I don't see why the Christian right would do this, Synth. According to them, the messiah has come and gone and will come again. The jews don't believe he has come yet, and that Jesus was a renegade prophet at best. Though I have heard of some jews beliving that Jesus was actually the messiah, I don't recall there being a jewish sect that teaches this.

 

[Barney]

Yes, I meant radical judaism. And it actually does say such things, read Leviticus.

I have and I'm pretty sure you're talking about laws of war. I'm also pretty sure it doesn't say such things, but I will talk to my rabbi about that since I'm not completely sure.

There are Jews for Jesus, they go around trying to convert people, but usually what they say are the dumbest things ever.

 

[DiebytheSword]

Wonderful quotes from leviticus:

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed.

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.

If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death.

If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death.

If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed.

Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death.

If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake.

Ah, here's a gem:

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.

From Dueteronomy:

Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death.

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them.

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals.

Kill anyone with a different religion.

If you want, I'll produce chapter and verse numbers so you can find them yourself.

Pretending they don't exist doesn't help things though, so see for yourself. It's as much part of my religeon as it is yours.

 

[Barney]

That says nothing about enslaving and killing other people because they do not believe in Judaism. That is saying within the Jewish community, since they are Jews they should follow certain laws (The Ten Commandments), and if these laws are broken, they should be put to death. And since Islam and Christianity weren't around then, it doesn't include them in those laws. I never said laws similar to these do not exist, I was pointing out that you said that Jewish law teaches to kill people not of their religion, which is not the case. I did learn about these things in school since I went to a Jewish day school, but we weren't TAUGHT to actually kill. Obviously in this day and age most of those laws don't apply anyways, what with all the exceptions to religions now.

And I know that the Old Testament also pertains to Christians, I just think you are seeing the translation in the wrong way.

 

[DiebytheSword]

How do:

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals.

and

Kill anyone with a different religion.


Get mixed up in translation?

Granted, I agree with you about that simply not being taught. I don't recall sunday school even once suggesting that I should kill anyone who doesn't belive in Christianity.

Now, I did not say jewish law to insinuate that all Jews are taught this, this is RADICAL fertile ground. Radical Christians use the same laws to call for the killing of ***s, heretics, and those who don't believe that Christ is the savior.

Again, I am not saying that this is for all, but it is in the bible. It is what the radicals use as an excuse. I'm certain that Islam has the same problems, a select few interpret it in a way that suggest that they should kill all who do not believe as they believe.

What is it with people assuming that I believe things . . . seriously. I have jews married into my family, I certainly do not see them as cretin thugs out to kill those who don't believe in Judaism. I am saying that all three major religeons have radical sects that will gladly kill for their version of god.

As for slavery, there are other passages, I just have to find them. One that stands out is that if your daughter disagrees with you, you should sell her into slavery.

 

[Dzamija]

Guys.....did any of you even think that the subtitles could be fake? That some ******* took a video of a kid show and put fake subs on it just to mock or give a false view about some people? This could be just as bad as the angry german kid going "I....WANT....PORN!!", so I wouldn't go off my rocker just yet, until it's confirmed that this is legitimate. And I see that a lot of people started seriously debating over this.