I don't get it.

[Halion]

Id released the source code to their engine, Valve didn't. Thus the only access the team will have will be to the modding tools.

That frankly makes no sense to me. They're basically licensing the source code itself? I mean, if ESF was stand-alone, and free, by downloading it you could only play ESF, and not Half-Life, even if it is Half-Life's source code. If you wanted to play Half-Life, you'd have to buy it. Now, I understand that the source code is also someone's piece of work, but does Valve really need more money that they have to sell a 13-year old game, just for its source code? I say release the damn thing. Valve has a lot of good new games, I don't think it's necessary for them to live off their former glory.

And frankly, I think that it's a bit unfair that they're making so much money on the count of someone else's hard work. People like the ESF team bust their asses to make a REALLY good, free game, with no personal gain whatsoever save for the shear pleasure of it, and Valve makes money off that. But hey, that's just my opinion, I don't think it's right.

 

[Z Power]

You seem to have trouble understanding how licensing works. Valve owns their engine. If you want to use it for any purpose whatsoever other than what they allow, ie modding, you have to buy the licensing rights from them. The Source Code is basically the engine itself, allowing a Standalone game to have it basically means you are giving the engine away for free. Valve is not releasing the Source Code not because they want money, but because it is their Intellectual Property, and thus it is there right to use it as they see fit.

Also, are you really saying it is unfair that Valve is allowing other people to mod their games? Modders choose to make mods for the game. ESF Team decided that modding the Goldsrc engine would allow them to make a great game, that is why they use it. Valve owes them nothing, and the team owes Valve nothing. If Valve makes money when people buy HL for playing mods, they have earned it through and through for releasing the Modding Tools in the first place.

 

[Halion]

Valve is not releasing the Source Code not because they want money, but because it is their Intellectual Property, and thus it is there right to use it as they see fit.

Well, if they didn't want money, what else would keep them from releasing their engine to the public? I mean, sure it is their intellectual property, someone did come up with it and probably busted their ass coding it, but isn't the satisfaction of someone using your tool for something as great as ESF has become, enough? I think they've earned enough money off it. I'm not talking about licensing rights here, I'm talking about the humane thing to do. And they COULD release it to the public if they wished so, just like Id did. It's like using someone's render in your signature. And of course Valve will get the credit, as everyone already knows that ESF is based on the Half-Life engine, and even if they didn't, the ESF team would surely point it out.

Also, are you really saying it is unfair that Valve is allowing other people to mod their games? Modders choose to make mods for the game. ESF Team decided that modding the Goldsrc engine would allow them to make a great game, that is why they use it. Valve owes them nothing, and the team owes Valve nothing. If Valve makes money when people buy HL for playing mods, they have earned it through and through for releasing the Modding Tools in the first place.

No, I'm saying that it's unfair that they're making money off something that is meant to be free. And off someone's hard work. And that it's probably going into the pockets of people that had nothing to do with the coding of the engine itself, since it is a 13 year-old game after all, who knows who coded that thing, and if he/she is still in Valve?

If I were Valve, I would be proud that my engine has done so much and would simply let them have it.

 

[Grega]

Well, if they didn't want money, what else would keep them from releasing their engine to the public? I mean, sure it is their intellectual property, someone did come up with it and probably busted their ass coding it, but isn't the satisfaction of someone using your tool for something as great as ESF has become, enough? I think they've earned enough money off it. I'm not talking about licensing rights here, I'm talking about the humane thing to do. And they COULD release it to the public if they wished so, just like Id did. It's like using someone's render in your signature. And of course Valve will get the credit, as everyone already knows that ESF is based on the Half-Life engine, and even if they didn't, the ESF team would surely point it out.

According to Gabe Newel (founder of Valve) when asked the question about the source code for HL1. He said they are not releasing it for the millions of people playing on the engine today still. Make no mistake Counter Strike 1.6 is pretty much one of the most played games even today. And according to Gabe, they are afraid of releasing the source code to prevent hacking. If you have all the engine protocols at your disposal you can easily get round any anti cheat software. ID could afford that since Quake 3 itself is rather dead, but Valve doesnt seem to want to risk it.

 

[fuzzy]

This approach is completely pointless. Why argue about why Valve should release the source or not? It seems it won't be released, so ESF won't be standalone. That's as final as it gets. There's also no point in discussing whether intellectual property is evil or not. It's there. Deal with it.

 

[Mkilbride]

And you're angry at Valve for being a business...for not giving away what makes them money, for free...geeze dude, grow up.

 

[Halion]

And you're angry at Valve for being a business...for not giving away what makes them money, for free...geeze dude, grow up.

Well, yeah. I'm against huge companies, that already have a lot of money, craving more, and more. That's not saying that they should make games for free, but that they're already making enough profit that the income from Half-Life wouldn't even make that much of a difference. That's just my opinion, I think greed is bad.

Now Grega, on the other hand, makes a valid point, didn't know, nor even think that having the source code could help in hacking, though it's kinda logical, but hey, you learn something new every day.