Gameplay is ****ed Up

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Doesn't mean I don't have a point and/or arguements for my criticisme. Yes it's up to them but if I have a point, it should not just be ignored especially if I'm far from being the only who thinks that way.
 
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David..
no offense but youve been talking BULL**** in every message youve posted.
first of all
"All those bugs are in the mantis"
completely bull****. most of the ESF team doesnt even know the bugs we are speaking about. and dont tell me its wrong i happen to know more than you. yes even about your friends in the team.
second about running: "You let them gain the advantage blah blah"
ill let you play against a player that stays at the end of the for 50 minutes till you attack him . when you do attack him out of boredom , he beams you or blocklame.
or rather come 1v1 me, ill show you why ESF is imbalanced.
i would like to see how YOU prevent me from using "run" and this ****.
and when i do 20-0 you.. youll have to say we are right and support us.
how does this sound to you
 
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I am a beta tester, i am on the ESF team. http://www.esforces.com/?p=team I think you'll find, you are the one talking bull****.

No doubt you'd probably beat me, but im saying that there are tactics involved in the game ignoring the cheap stuff, like block whoring, its okay to block at the appropriate attack when you see it coming, isnt it? or am i not allowed to do that and i should just sit there at let you hit me because you consider it cheap? there's a difference between abusing and using the game mechanics (things coded into the game on purpose) Letting the enemy go on the attack and avoiding them untill they need to powerup, isnt cheap, its part of the game. Ive seen all the cheap tricks, I can do them myself, but i dont like to. Like i said, there's a HUGE difference between abusing and using the game mechanics. Offensive and deffensive (thats what "running" is) stratergies arent any different, but using exploits is cheap.
 
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wtf is block abusing ?
there is an easy way to counter somebody blocking this cheap simple melee **** ...
... use advance melee ....
 
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i guess i might outline a few things too about classes & attacks

Goku > pros : spirit bomb costs no ki , Kame torpedos , khh (yes , the most common beam of the game for a powerful beam attack , but has good strength none the less) , solarflare , can teleport while charging beams (SSJ). > cons : Spirit bomb requries obvious charge and does take long to charge it fully (big spirit bomb) , kame torpedos can be dodged depending on opponents skill

Gohan > pros : Shield , early trans , masenko (quicker then most beams in charge with decent strength i guess you could say) , khh. > cons : low speed in normal form , some attacks can brake through the shield and ki consumption depending on the power of the attack can cost the gohan player more ki

Krillin > pros : High speed when transed , scatter beam (can catch players off guard after melee fights and becomes useful on a fight depending on what your opponent(s) are doing , khh , Destructo disk (instant kill if opponent(s) are hit by the attack) , solarflare. > cons : destructo disk is an obvious attacks to most opponents , has low speed til he can attain his required power level to transform

Piccolo > pros : Special beam cannon (fast and quick) , masenko , eye laser (can come in handy) , scatter shot. > cons : Lower speed , 1.5x transformation Multiplier - Note that piccolo actually has any extra teleport while transed , so instead of 12 he has an extra 1)

Cell > pros : has alot of attacks (khh in first form , sbc , galit gun in 2nd form , solarflare) good speed , does't cost him ki to fly. > cons : 1.5x transformation Multiplier

Vegeta > pros : good attacks , good speed (simlar to goku in terms of some respects i guess you could say) Big bang (powerful projectle) Final flash (most powerful attack in game). > cons : takes a bit to trans (in some people's opinions and some what depedent of their skill) , Renzoku seems useless to most people

Trunks > pros : Burning attack can blind opponents + cause damage , has an advantage in melee , finishing buste , early trans > cons : isn't good as a powersturggle charcter (his beams aren't all that strong , unless your doing a gen beam to gen beam sturggle) , has lower speed

Buu > pros : highest starting pl , Mouth Blast , candy attack , can regenerate hp , high transed speed. > cons : 1.5 trans multiplier

Frezia > pros : Finger laser (can be rapidly shot) , deathball , doesn't cost ki to fly (2nd form). > cons : telekenisis seems useless in people's opinions , 1.5x multiplier , no powerful beams

there may be mistakes in that , but I am lasy to correct them i guess (most of it should be right anyway)

as you can see to make each charcter differnt from one another , certain advantages are given to one charcter and another advantage to some other charcter , some charcters have some things cut back and others don't , which holds the balance. Skill/combat style in the end also come down to the game , but just goes to show that it isn't completely unbalanced

-Kai- said:
David..
no offense but youve been talking BULL**** in every message youve posted.
first of all
"All those bugs are in the mantis"
completely bull****. most of the ESF team doesnt even know the bugs we are speaking about. and dont tell me its wrong i happen to know more than you. yes even about your friends in the team.
second about running: "You let them gain the advantage blah blah"
ill let you play against a player that stays at the end of the for 50 minutes till you attack him . when you do attack him out of boredom , he beams you or blocklame.
or rather come 1v1 me, ill show you why ESF is imbalanced.
i would like to see how YOU prevent me from using "run" and this ****.
and when i do 20-0 you.. youll have to say we are right and support us.
how does this sound to you
How you describe david is completely incorrect , that's nothing like him , he doesn't post crap here and there to say , if anything was crap , that post was as it really doesn't change a thing now does it ?.
 
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Saiyan_Overlord said:
esf is "based" on dbz (just because you think it may lack a few features of dbz fighting doesn't just mean it's not dbz) , how is it not dbz , how can you call a game that has dbz related charcters not "dbz" ?. You also have to think of the balancing and how hard some things are to be implemented , & you wil find that sped was lowered in different situations through out dbz , ethier maybe they were stunned buy what their opponent was capable of or just when it was nessacary to go really fast or if they had to catch up to someone and slowed down to their speed if they were going slower then the speed they were to catch up to that person (i'll use goten and trunks as an example , if you revise dbz a bit you may very well know the scene i am talking of)
It may be based on DBZ, but it isn't anything LIKE DBZ. Imo they should stop basing it on DBZ and should focus more on a game, making it far more balanced. The aim for most players in ESF is not to be another player, they want to be the best of the best. Untouchable, Unstoppable. If someone joins the game, I want them to have big eyes and say "WTF?! IM TOTALLY OUTCLASSED IN EVERY DAMN WAY!" Just like players that play Q3 or UT.

Laguno said:
wtf is block abusing ?
there is an easy way to counter somebody blocking this cheap simple melee **** ...
... use advance melee ....
It's really not that simple. Adv melee is generally LUCK and doesn't take skill, which is why we don't like to be forced to use adv melee. Further more adv melee can backfire. Sure we could use the adv melee glitch for it, but keep in mind that letting go of right mouse at the last split moment will not emediatly make it adv melee. Also there are situations in which u cant see what the opponent is doing because of 3rd person.

Maybe we should make a sprite where someone flashes a certain color when he/she blocks so every1 can see it REALLY clearly OR I could do the glitch NON stop! YEEY THATS GONNA BE FUN!... not...

Saiyan_Overlord said:
Buu > pros : highest starting pl , Mouth Blast , candy attack , can regenerate hp , high transed speed. > cons : 1.5 trans multiplier
You really think anybody cares about the 1.5 trans multiplier? His speed is enough. Basicly if Goku and Buu were at the same PL, Buu would still have a lower cost of ki because hes faster then Goku...

If a pro player plays with Buu, he'll deffinatly try to candy ppl to raise his PL VERY fast. A player gets 100.000 for every candy. Doesn't take a pro player long to reach translevel.

-Kai- said:
ill let you play against a player that stays at the end of the for 50 minutes till you attack him . when you do attack him out of boredom , he beams you or blocklame.
or rather come 1v1 me, ill show you why ESF is imbalanced.
i would like to see how YOU prevent me from using "run" and this ****.
and when i do 20-0 you.. youll have to say we are right and support us.
I would love to see Kai taking on Davidskiwan. See if he still likes the lameplay after getting beaten with a score of 20-0...

Grega said:
First its a game that is made in the free time of the peole making it.
Everyone has opions about everything someone else makes. Unfortunatly for some of us, ESF is the only game which resembles what we want in a game. We should be so lucky that there would be thousands of mods and games like this. Then we wouldnt have to be begging a team to change something but sign a small partition and it would be done because they want to see us pay money for it...

As more games are made, adding new things, more and more people begin to imagine that what they want to see as/in a game, is possible. If they don't have the knowledge/time/skill to make it themselves, they will turn to others that CAN make it.

Most of the old players from 1.1 quit playing ESF and turned to other games or completely stopped playing games. I don't want to play UT, Q3 or whatever, I want to play a game like ESF, but more balanced. Since that isn't around I'll turn to the 1 thing that matches it the closest.
 
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Game play is good to me .But if your a noob its hard at first about a hour of game play you will get in to it .The only thing the mod really needs is like a level up system .Like you level up you can put stats up strenth or speed and stuff .Other then that its great mod.
 
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Sephize said:
I would love to see Kai taking on Davidskiwan. See if he still likes the lameplay after getting beaten with a score of 20-0...
Did i ever say i liked the "lameplay"? No. i was justifying the fact that now the game is less about going headlong into a fight trying to get the right angle, as of 1.2, ki balls, generic beams are more intergrated into melee and advanced melee has been added and multi directional swoop enabling the player many more options to do as they wish. Some things need changing, but the way carnage was saying: "Both wait till you make the first move and dodge everything to get one hit on you," Well isnt that your fault for falling for it? you should be more wise to it if they do it, because it is preventable, make sure they have to change their tactics, thats the big difference between it and HOWing because you had little options to do so you had to play into their trap. Some people as i can see are stubborn, everyone must play the same or it isnt fair. Its like ken and ryu in streetfighter, one is better on the defense, and one is better on the offense. Just because you play offensive, doesnt mean that its cheap when people play better than you on the defense. There are always ways around it, you need to adapt your thinking. Im not, and was not, talking about anything to do with exploits or laming, i was directly talking about "running" because it can be used to your advantage or it can be a disadvantage, according to the to the tactics you choose to combat it. Things like block - insta throw, or ceiling combo, rolling combo you have no way to combat it, there arent any tactics you can use to stop your enemy from doing it to you as soon as its initatied. Where as if you notice somebody is a runner, you can force him to change to offence attack by hitting him with generic attacks as he runs away, his tactic is therefore flawed, and it becomes your advantage because you are manipulating the situation that way. There is a BIG difference between laming and tactics, between gameplay mechanics and exploits, that was my point entirely.

You all seem to think nobody listens to the suggestions too, just because you arent told what is going to be changed in 1.3 doesnt mean that the team are ignoring everything. I've taken Carnages side in many things before, and surely most understand that i am completely for making the game more balanced, so do the team a favour and stop *****ing and complaining and have a little faith, because whinning and almost flaming isnt helping anyone. The Idea's help, the *****yness is non-constructive and just causes resentment.
 
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David should talk to my brother when I play video games with him, maybe slap some sence into him...

But regarding the esf issue, people talk about like their needs to be complete balanced..But that makes it boring. Each character/player will probably have their advantages and disadvantages, that's what makes it fun. Using multiple bufs to fight, well that out of the user's will, if they don't like em, don't use em. But for the ones who don't careless, I suppose that is when bugs are needed to be fixed.

As for Laguno's diagnosis to stop basic melee with advanced melee...I think that is just one sided (even though I think he is the minority who thinks this) Because Advanced melee is too limited compared to basic melee, and more reptitive if you will. Advacned melee is far from bad, a very unique idea of it, but I remember when I didn't even know what basic melee was and I just sat there pressing arrows randomly for the whole time...How fun.

No matter what, a tactice WILL be used nultiple times, even if it is considered cheap. Just like an fighting game, a player may choose to use the same tactics and not do anything about it.

The real skill shows when you can find away to bypass this tactic and gain the upper hand.
 
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Davidskiwan said:
Did i ever say i liked the "lameplay"? No. i was justifying the fact that now the game is less about going headlong into a fight trying to get the right angle, as of 1.2, ki balls, generic beams are more intergrated into melee and advanced melee has been added and multi directional swoop enabling the player many more options to do as they wish. Some things need changing, but the way carnage was saying: "Both wait till you make the first move and dodge everything to get one hit on you," Well isnt that your fault for falling for it? you should be more wise to it if they do it, because it is preventable, make sure they have to change their tactics, thats the big difference between it and HOWing because you had little options to do so you had to play into their trap. Some people as i can see are stubborn, everyone must play the same or it isnt fair. Its like ken and ryu in streetfighter, one is better on the defense, and one is better on the offense. Just because you play offensive, doesnt mean that its cheap when people play better than you on the defense. There are always ways around it, you need to adapt your thinking. Im not, and was not, talking about anything to do with exploits or laming, i was directly talking about "running" because it can be used to your advantage or it can be a disadvantage, according to the to the tactics you choose to combat it. Things like block - insta throw, or ceiling combo, rolling combo you have no way to combat it, there arent any tactics you can use to stop your enemy from doing it to you as soon as its initatied. Where as if you notice somebody is a runner, you can force him to change to offence attack by hitting him with generic attacks as he runs away, his tactic is therefore flawed, and it becomes your advantage because you are manipulating the situation that way. There is a BIG difference between laming and tactics, between gameplay mechanics and exploits, that was my point entirely.

You all seem to think nobody listens to the suggestions too, just because you arent told what is going to be changed in 1.3 doesnt mean that the team are ignoring everything. I've taken Carnages side in many things before, and surely most understand that i am completely for making the game more balanced, so do the team a favour and stop *****ing and complaining and have a little faith, because whinning and almost flaming isnt helping anyone. The Idea's help, the *****yness is non-constructive and just causes resentment.
LOL! in 1.1 u could stand there and wait as long as u wanted, just like u can in 1.2. So it's OUR fault we want to play now? Maybe i should beamspam the entire server to get the runner then... JOY!....

And about the 6hits... u can stop it... why don't u play the game and THEN start posting?
Also the observant Laguno already said we should use adv melee only... or rather the combo continuesly to prevent blocklame...
The fact is that noone in his RIGHT mind would attack AFTER seeing a generic. Atleast I don't. I'll just wait.. and wait.. and wait... Some gameplay then huh?

Now we can stop *****ing and moaning and flaming, but that would increase the chance that 1.3 will be worse then 1.2.

I still have *some* faith in the team IF they balance it, but on the outline of 1.3 I'm not 100% sure... and u know what they say: It's better to prevent a problem then solve it when it shows up.. or something like that...
 
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Sephize said:
LOL! in 1.1 u could stand there and wait as long as u wanted, just like u can in 1.2. So it's OUR fault we want to play now? Maybe i should beamspam the entire server to get the runner then... JOY!....
sure stand there and wait, but i didnt say that.

Sephize said:
And about the 6hits... u can stop it... why don't u play the game and THEN start posting?
it's still an exploit.

Sephize said:
Also the observant Laguno already said we should use adv melee only... or rather the combo continuesly to prevent blocklame...
The fact is that noone in his RIGHT mind would attack AFTER seeing a generic. Atleast I don't. I'll just wait.. and wait.. and wait... Some gameplay then huh?
If you dont go towards him and you continously bombard him with ki attacks whatever he does, he will have to stop you from attacking eventually, either with a ki attack of his own or coming to melee, the thing is, if you attack with enough he isnt going to have time to charge signature moves if you're hitting him with loads of generic balls. Plus they cost little ki for you and you still have your ki bar for when he tries to shoot any beam or come to melee you, u can always be ready to teleport or block just incase. Its called provoking a response, if he's going to keep up his tactic, he'll suffer for it, so he has to do something. Plus the block lamers can be beaten using teleport tricks and out manuvering their block if you're good enough, so just get better if u wanna win that way, otherwise you're going to have to change tactic and use advanced melee.

Stephize said:
Now we can stop *****ing and moaning and flaming, but that would increase the chance that 1.3 will be worse then 1.2.

I still have *some* faith in the team IF they balance it, but on the outline of 1.3 I'm not 100% sure... and u know what they say: It's better to prevent a problem then solve it when it shows up.. or something like that...
Yes i agree, but what i said is give idea's, *****ing saying "what you're doing isnt good enough" isnt helping, idea's do. The more you ***** and moan the less people will want to take your idea's seriously.
 
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Alright, gentlemen. Things are getting a bit hot here. If you have to resort to using language that the filter is taking out, chances are things are heading in a bad direction in this discussion.

Calm down. I know where these discussions lead, and any flames will be treated with a warning followed by a thread closure.
 
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Sorry david but they are right. I am VERY well aware of the difference between laming and gameplay. I am aware that being defensive is gameplay, but some people push it beyond its limit. Have you ever fought a super runner, not the one that sucks at it? You will find soon enough it's as fun as getting banged by the entire server. As I said before, the only way to really win a runner is either : be super good (which is rediculous, people are not bots that do everything perfect) or become a runner yourself, waiting only for the other to make a wrong move. ESF IS SUPPOSED TO BE FASTPACED, as many say themselves. Chasing a runner is EVERYTHING BUT fast paced, it is so slow, it makes me want to slap myself so that I can just stay awake. As kai once put it perfectly "wake me up when he moves" because that's exactly what happens. I enjoy ESF but when I encounter one of these, I really get irritated especially when they start talking like you, that it's tactics. You might want to do this in the military, where it's a matter of life and death but a game is about fun and competition, as long as people run, it isn't going to be fun for the other one and anyone who ignores that lacks respect of other people's opinions.

It's nice to see some extra beams and kiblasts in melee if it were balanced... after a simple melee hit you can't block. According to you that would be unbalanced because you can't 'combat' it. In fact, it IS unbalanced and since I've had a vision of this a year ago I've been trying to talk sense into people before it's too late. Finally, people are starting to understand wth I was talking about but nothing has changed and probably isn't going to change as far as I know.

Even tho I usually agree with you david, you are VERY wrong at that part. If you want to prove the opposite, go ahead, I got some more arguements up my sleeve to prove you wrong.

edit: wow, this thread is sure drawing people's attention :p, we might even accomplish something here
 
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Carnage said:
but nothing has changed and probably isn't going to change as far as I know.
I'm sorry, but that's hearsay. You aren't privvy to what is being added or changed in the next update. I'm a tester and, for some features, don't even know what to expect.

If you want to discuss current gameplay issues, then that's perfectly fine - it's one of many reasons we have the ESF Chat section. However, do not speak about changes to be made in 1.3 when neither you, nor most people who have posted in this thread, know what's going on - myself included. The LAST thing I want to see in this thread (save for flaming, of course) is people assuming that the team is not looking into this issue. They do not turn a blind eye to the community.
 
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i wonder if david ever heard of a block button for kiblast, a teleport for a generic and beamjumps...
 
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Right and I assume you expect us to wait until 1.3 only to fill the forums with new complaints then?
 
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Sephize said:
It's really not that simple. Adv melee is generally LUCK and doesn't take skill, which is why we don't like to be forced to use adv melee. Further more adv melee can backfire.
are you joking me lol ?
its not that hard to press the arrow keys to block the melee attacks is it ?
lamao :shocked:

Chakra-X said:
Advacned melee is far from bad, a very unique idea of it, but I remember when I didn't even know what basic melee was and I just sat there pressing arrows randomly for the whole time...How fun.
is it fun to hold the right mouse button and try to boost against an enemy ?
oh ya how fun ....

to press the right arrows in the right moment is much more skilled than holding the right mouse button and double tapping the "w" button o_O
 
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Please laguno, all you do is state what everybody is against.

Adv melee is mainly luck because it has randoms

simple melee is fun cos it has much more tactics to it than adv melee and actually requires more skill.

That is why, now play the game for a few months and check back you will I am right.
 

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