ESRB changes San Andreas rating

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Chakra-X said:
For some reason I've heard more controversy over GTA:SA than god of war..Maybe cuz GTA:SA is more 'realistic'
And a lot more well known. Pretty much everyone has heard of the GTA series.
 
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Sub said:
Look, I understand that they didn't know about the hidden sex scene. The fact is, however, is that if they did know about it, it would have still be rated M (i'll say again, God Of War got rated M and it was much worse). The fact that they didn't mention it shouldn't have changed the rating, they're blowing this whole thing out of proportion.
The entire point is it that any gaming company can put in any kind of material as long as ESRB is notified of it. This whole things is punishment, it's not because they think the content needs an AO rating. They're really just sending a message to other companies not to lock and hide these sort of things, cause what was locked or hidden could have been much worse or more controversial than some dumb sex mini game.
 
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I think this is stupid myself. Oh, you can brutally murder countless men, women and police officers in an infinite number of ways... steal planes to fly them into buildings... and rob your local convenience store, but GOD FORBID you should see a cheesy sex scene that involves no nudity. What's really retarded is that, agewise, the difference between an AO(18+) rating and a M(17+) rating is one year. You know, because the instant you hit 18, your a mature, responsible adult.

That said, I couldn't care less about it since I'm 18+. I understand why the rating change had to be done, but I still think it's stupid. Not on ESRB's part, I think the senators and politicians that ripped ESRB for "failing to properly rate harmful video games" are idiots. It's not their fault R* hid a bunch of code on a disk.
 
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they didnt "hide" it, its no like they purposefully left it there for someone to find. it was a removed from the final game but for reasons unknown to me they didnt feel bothered to remove it from the disc, it could be something so simple as that they didnt need the extra disk space
 

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Kaination said:
Yeah, I'm ****ing pissed. I love that game, and as soon as my mom hears, guess what. She takes it away and hides it. ****ing christ. It's some real bull****.
Using my judgement here: You aren't even old enough to play the M rated version, let alone the AO version. She did the right thing.
 
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they didnt "hide" it, its no like they purposefully left it there for someone to find. it was a removed from the final game but for reasons unknown to me they didnt feel bothered to remove it from the disc, it could be something so simple as that they didnt need the extra disk space
....Yeah right, they hid it. Intentionally or unintentionally, they hid it. Did they tell ESRB it was there? No. Ok then, it was hidden [from ESRB]. Did R* know it was still there? Who knows, but their statement regarding the issue isn't exactly truthful.

Regardless, my point was that it's NOT ESRB's fault as everyone in the senate seems to think it is.
 
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Some humour should lighten the mood.


Basically, R* kept digging themselves deeper with lies, and now the game is AO. Big deal, anyone who already has the game goes unaffected.
 
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Half-Unit said:
....Yeah right, they hid it; intentionally or unintentionally, they hid it. Did they tell ESRB it was there? No. Ok then, it was hidden [from ESRB]. Did R* know it was still there? Who knows, but their statement regarding the issue isn't exactly truthful.

Regardless, my point was that it's NOT ESRB's fault as everyone in the senate seems to think it is.
Well, you know how politicians are: Deny everything you don't like, twist the truth to suit your needs and if all else fails, blame it on someone else.
 
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Some humour should lighten the mood.
Ha ha, it's funny because it's true :D

Basically, R* kept digging themselves deeper with lies, and now the game is AO. Big deal, anyone who already has the game goes unaffected.
True. I've got copies of both the PS2 and PC versions, plus I live in Britain where it doesn't affect us, but still, it was a little aggravating. Still, life goes on. I hope Rockstar comes back with a bang.

Oh, and a couple of links;
IGN interview with Rockstar
and
Maddox's take on the situation :laff:
 
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It was related to this so why not here?
 
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"ESRB changes San Andreas rating", not "ESRB changes San Andreas rating, and hey, don't forget about The Sims 2." If you guys really want to discuss it that badly, make a thread for it.
 
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Well I don't really want to discuss it but it just shows how much of a fruit loop that Thompson guy is. He makes weird claims that he doesn't even bother checking.
 
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It has EVERYTHING to do with San Andreas being changed to AO! You honestly think this idiot would even attempt to go after The Sims2 if this whole SA thing never happened? I know you're just trying to do your job, but this does have everything to do with the SA controversy. SA is the trigger, The Sims2 is seeing the fallout. If you truly don't want any further discussion about it, great, but I really think you're missing the big picture here.

I wonder who's next?
 

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I don't want to go against a mod or anything, but I have to agree with them. This has everything to do with Grand Theft Auto coming under fire and being changed from M to AO. After all, it is the same guy pressing the attack. With that being said, if any mod feels the need to delete my post, please by all means do.

As for the Sims 2 now coming under fire, I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I heard it. I mean, I can almost understand people attacking Grand Theft Auto, but the Sims 2!?! That's just utterly ridiculous.
 
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As a programmer, and an anti-Mother's-Against-Everything-Potentially-Insulting-Or-Offensive advocate, I support Rockstar's position.

Tell me, what is easier:
a:
Changing this...
PHP:
sex_minigame = true;

// this is our sex minigame, comment this out before release
if(sex_minigame == true)
    RunSexMiniGame();
else
    PlayNormalScene();
into this:
PHP:
sex_minigame = false;
// ^^^ totally no way to access now without 3rd party modification

// this is our sex minigame, comment this out before release
if(sex_minigame == true)
    RunSexMiniGame();
else
    PlayNormalScene();
Or,

b. Spending many man hours hunting down what could be e.g. 5 thousand+ of lines of code?

Obviously A.

Now keep in mind, ANY third party modification to the game violates both Take 2 and Rockstar's EULA! Installing the "mod" on the PC version falls under that category.

The PC version is clearly easier to edit, and also explains why the minigame was not found (on all versions) until the PC version was released.

What boggles my mind is how this was not found before. A few days after the PS2 version was released, an individual wrote a program that enabled his computer's parallel port to send commands to his PS2 controller (along with a special piece of hardware he created). He used it to brute-force every possible combination in order to find every single cheat code. Why didn't he find the codes? OH wait, that's right, because THE CLAIMED CODES DON'T EXIST IN THE CONSOLE VERSIONS.

(The PC version if any should receive AO, not the console versions)

Also, codes don't always end up being programmed into the game purposely. Take for example the Justin Bailey (scroll down a bit for it) code for Metroid on the NES. It allowed the player to start with a ton of items and a custom outfit. It was never purposely added by the programmers. Perhaps the combinations they've found in SA overwrite the location of the sex_enabled variable, or change the if/else statement (code flow/control itself), who knows.

Plus, why didn't this game get an AO rating anyways? I can gun down innocent civilians/police officers in the streets, **** hookers and take their money by killing them afterwards, drive excessively fast and violate laws in almost all civilized countries!

Is the jump from M to AO REALLY that bad? I mean, I'm 17 and I can't buy the game. :( Oh whoops, I can get one of my 18 year old friends to buy it for me anyways. Or I can wait a few months for my birthday and I can buy it. (and no i'm not 17 in real life stupid)

All that will amount to is lack of respect for the ESRB and possibly slight loss of sales (this game is almost a year old, and PS2 was the targetted platform, so 90% of all sales for this game have probably already been made).

The ESRB rated the version of the game they received to test, which was the same version that went out. There was no easy way to unlock this content, and there is still no lawful way to do it.

Revoking the rating after almost a year is insane.
 
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Alright, I've got a question. Why is God of War, a game that is much much much more violent, has topless women and has a mini-sex-game where you have sex with two women at once rated M instead of AO? Isn't that much worse then what’s in GTA: SA? I mean, at least in GTA: SA, you can't get to the content unless you're actively trying to.
Because in the anti-adult-oriented gaming political regime it is fashionable to attack Grand Theft Auto.

The Sims 2 thing confirms already what I suspected--this is going to daisy chain.

The way legal precedents work, is that lawyers and political affiliations refer to the original case decision as the 'pre-eminent' law...i.e., the Roe vs. Wade case allowed the formation of abortion laws because of the decisions made by the Supreme Court in that case were able to be used as a foundation to push the laws.

To simplify it's like this: now that these anti-game pigs have gotten the rating of one game to be changed to affect its distro (something they've been trying to do since Doom 1--limit the distribution rights based on content), they will now use this case to spearhead every case they bring up.

A good layman's example is this Sims 2 thing. "Well, GTA: SA had virtual nudity, sex, and explicit violence, all of which [insert game they decide to rape here] has, and this is what the ruling was with that situation." The courts and lawyers than face an issue of consistency

These ****ing law pigs don't really think about 'the game in question' like we do. THe Sims 2 is harmless and GTA is very different from the Sims as any gamer will know, it is like comparing an eighteen wheeler to a christmas ham, it just makes no damn sense whatsoever.

But GTA and Sims 2 are two of the biggest selling games of the last few years. And the law pigs understand that much better than content or context--the numbers, the big money. These ****ing people have never seen or played these games. We all know this just from the retardedness of this jump--GTA's virtual drive by's to the Sims 2's nude character models. God of War won't get noticed for quite sometime...I guarandamntee they didn't have that sex minigame in the God of War preview builds, for example. Plus God of War is not on PC, has no guns, and is only on one of the three consoles--its profit margin, while considerable, would pale in comparison to to big PC hits and triple-header titles on all the consoles. So it will be ignored, because it is "not a large threat."

It's all a big ugly ****ing shame, honestly. They're just going to go right down like, IGN's top game sales list...and blast all the big ones. And this landmark decision for GTA will force the court to sort of re-enact similar guidelines. Otherwise they will criss cross and there ends up being an all out red tape war between the games and the assailant dogs of the political regimes who want them gone.

Most ****ed up part...Leisure Suit Larry, because of its sales and the fact that the cover disguises it as a cartoon, will probably keep a low rating.

They're on a crusade to choke the industry off; they say that video games breed unhealthy living and bad habits, that the first person shooter is the progenitor of minds like those of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and most importantly they make themselves look like heroic crusaders while villifying a minority--the american money pig's ****ing speciality, right there. These ****ing scumbags think they're saving American youth from a lifetime of obesity, antisocial behavior, and forcibly induced psychosis.

It's all going to quickly get ugly, now that they got that first punch in on GTA. If they can do it to GTA--pretty much the biggest selling console game in recent memory, give or take a few other monster games--then it stands to reason that it will only be easier. Look at the Sims 2 thing, FFS...that was less then 48 hours after the GTA news broke. It's like the ****ing pig has had his hand on the big red SUE button and was just ITCHING to launch the subpoena....

This is going to get worse and worse for us. Gamers as a community need to do something. Because I'll tell you that aside from GTA their primary target is one near and dear to all computer gamer's hearts...the First Person Shooter. They will tear all of them apart before long.

God...what a ridiculous world....

We have to do something about this. Us, the people who play. This gaming industry is one of the most lucrative in the world today, people...the US Government controls all the others--Oil, Tobacco, Media--but it doesn't have this. We can't let them take it from us. Video Games are the last real free thing in this country and these dogs are trying to take this one last "uncensored" thing and stamp it into oblivion, reconverting it for their benefits.

We have to do something. We can't just sit and not do anything...God dammit, I am not going to let this sideways ****ed up country destroy another great modern art form. They've numbed us with TV, commercialized and annihilated our music industry, but they can't get this. Not from us.

For ****ing starters I am going to buy San God Damn Andreas tomorrow. I'm not even a fan, hell I might not even play it. But ****ed if I'm going to let these guys get it pulled from the shelves of eight major retailers without helping keep it alive.

And then...

...**** this. I work at the biggest newspaper company in New England now. I am an educated master of the published word, trained by people who have spread knowledge and change all over the world with their publications. There has got to be a way we can let our voices be heard, there has got to be a way we can fight back the stereotypes and change the way the world sees us. No, we're NOT fat, antisocial layabouts with no ambitions and dulled minds; we are the sharpest, we are the best and the brightest in many cases, and we are those whose minds CAN'T be numbed by the ****ing television, those who CAN'T be bought with a thousand advertisements shoved down our throat, those who need something more. We are people whose imaginations have spawned thousands of worlds, thousands of roles for us to play, and given countless hours of intellectual and grandiose fun and entertainment. In many ways we are like gods--who is to say if we are not all just pixels on someone's super-advanced video game screen? We create and we live and we observe and we love the worlds we go to. We love Mario, we love the Master Chief, we love Leon Kennedy, and god dammit we love CJ. These are characters that have been given LIFE, in the pixels and polygons on our screens. And god dammit if I'm going to let these pigs snuff out the most rapidly technologically advancing industry in all of human history's entertainment practices.

They can drag us down to their little area 51s, their hangar 18s, but god damn them straight to hell if I am going to go quietly. Video Games are the last thing keeping everyone in this country from being a tunneled out hollow shell of a human being; video games have gotten me through some of the most horrible things I have ever had to endure; video games have been there for me when Rich White America told me to go **** myself; and for 50 bucks at my local ****ing EB, I can get away from it all.

When I pick up that controller, when I put my hand on that mouse...we aren't Americans any more. We arent' Europeans, we aren't Aussies, we aren't Arabs, we aren't Jews, we aren't citizens of any of these ridiculous nations. No, we are those who surf from plain to plain of one another's imaginations--those who's thoughts are too strong to be caged in the written word, the censored film. No, I'm not a citizen of the U.S. at all when I double click my shortcut on my desktop, or when I press that X button on my PS2.

No. We're something else. We're Game Nation. And we're under attack.

I say it's high time we give them hell.
 
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Legal precedent, legal schmecedent. While they can try to use this as leverage in further 'attacks', since no legal decison was made, it will never hold the same power as a legal precedent.

And as for the Sims 2? Jack Thompson needs to get off his power trip, and stop sniffing his crotch over the latest GTA "victory." EA already said that behind the pixelation the Sims look like Ken and Barbie. OMG BAN KEN AND BARBIE!
 

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