ESF:Final

[Grega]

The average age of a stargate fan is what round 20 years or so. The average age of people playing ESF is below 15.

I see no problems in the idea, but you forget that most people playing this are no more than kids who dont know the first thing about what a beta test version is. The Open beta was running for nearly 2 years and each new release did nothing more than make more people complain about bugs.

Sure there were people who helped us with the testing, and after the Open Beta ended, those people were offered beta tester positions.

But tell me yourself. Would you be willing to play a game that drops your FPS below 10 if you shoot kiblasts because of debug printouts that we need in order to locate the bug of them exploding in your face when you shoot, where the game locks up your keyboard randomly if you try to use the ingame chat, where effects continue to play even when they shouldnt because of errors causing your frames to drop, where your FPS take a dive every time an effect is played just because the effect call outs are either outdated or not optimized and so on.

People were complaining about missing animations and that sort of stuff in the open beta. And for the open beta we only released stable builds even. Builds that were specially compiled to have as little debug prints as possible, and were as stable as we could get them.

It was quite a bit of extra work and it was not enough it would seem.

What im trying to say is. We tried the other way. It didnt work, so we stopped using it and went back to how we did it before.

 

[LSSJ]

personally i would count myself to the ones who would be happy with progress....i develop a game by myself right now and i did that evossj4 **** in the past...so i know that progress doesnt come everytime as beautiful as it is wished....you sure got a point in that age around 15 years...but you also have to consider that the most of the player are still the old ones...and the ones which were back in the days around 15 are now around 20 years

like said i would go for it....but maybe with some extra rules.....we have to filter all that useless and annoying stuff and just keep the positiv stuff of that idea.

i would say:
-make it svn(atleast give it a shot)
-make a rule "no one complains"
-make a bug section with a pinned topic where you list all the bugs which are known untill now.With huge headline: READ before REPORT
moderators should be allowed to update this by time

results:
People come back,development should go faster forward because of usefull bug reports,both sides are happy and well....

this way both sides should only gain the positives of this.and if it doesnt work you can still go back to the current behaving...

the esf1.3beta wasnt really the same like this idea....you have to make it clear that its the current build...sometimes not works...sometimes a lot is missing....but the progress will make them happy......with the extra rule of not complaining and the "known bugs" thread it should work out this time...if you want to make a headline in game which also says: team build...unstable...lot missing...the moderators will filter out the forum for useless stuff.....they will be happy to have work again the beta was just there without any word before....and well sure a lot kids make useless stuff...but with a known bug thread and moderators this should be part of the past.

i really get your point! its a good understandable point and like you sound you sure also get mine.....its a coin....it has two sides...are you willing to throw it? its your choice....just because i really loved this mod in the past i wanted to give this idea a shot.

 

[Dokutayuu]

you sure got a point in that age around 15 years...but you also have to consider that the most of the player are still the old ones...and the ones which were back in the days around 15 are now around 20 years

Not quite true, most players nowadays are relatively new. Now, I'm not great at ESF by any means but I don't have trouble with the majority of public server players. Duel servers are another story (almost everyone can give me a beating) but generally they're less populated than the public ones.

As for your plan, replace SVN with direct download and you get exactly what happened with the Open Beta. The bug report section resulted in mostly complaints about stuff not working, despite the stickies explaining that it was a test build. Even when a bug was posted, it was often one already known by the team or posted a few times before. This would be a great system if everything went smoothly, however it hasn't worked in the past so I'm not certain it would get much done.

 

[LSSJ]

sure they are new because the old ones left because they got bored....i think my idea is a bit more stable then the beta stuff what happend....mostly it goes with the idea of the seeable development....and that only comes via SVN...

the beta those days was a accident as far as i know...it wasnt planed to get released....correct me if i am wrong...well i dont really wanna will this topic with spamming about this....i just wanna put it in their hands if they do it..i made my idea clear...both sides have good points.....personally i would like it...and for the idiots........ make me moderator and i delete every useless topic i see

its up to you guys^^

 

[Z Power]

They aren't really throwing anything away by not giving people an open beta, because last I checked, they actually accomplished more in recent time than they did by giving out the beta. Like you said, allowing everyone to test a buggy build has its advantages, the extra man-power can really speed up the bug testing process. But practically, for mods like these, that hardly ever happens.

You also have to understand that the devs are doing this as much for themselves as for us. They have found what they are suitable working with, so I really don't feel its all the more necessary to force them to change tactics again. They also don't owe us the game. Even if I get bored of waiting and move on, the day it releases, I sure as heck am gonna come back to play it. Its ESF after all.

 

[Grega]

sure they are new because the old ones left because they got bored....i think my idea is a bit more stable then the beta stuff what happend....mostly it goes with the idea of the seeable development....and that only comes via SVN...

the beta those days was a accident as far as i know...it wasnt planed to get released....correct me if i am wrong...well i dont really wanna will this topic with spamming about this....i just wanna put it in their hands if they do it..i made my idea clear...both sides have good points.....personally i would like it...and for the idiots........ make me moderator and i delete every useless topic i see

its up to you guys^^

That was mostly in 1.1.

Here is the story as ive seen it happen.

ESF 1.1 had loads of players new and pro. Then 1.2 got released. It was slower than 1.1 and thus the pros started complaining about game speed and how easier it became compared to the old version. New players joined, but didnt stay because they couldnt land a single hit on the pros. The pros left saying "this game is boring now that its this slow" the new people left saying "Why should i play if i cant even hit anyone"

Then there was a bit of a hole created with the pros, new people became pros, and started chasing away new players by dominating them, and getting bored of easy pray and leaving. Now repeat this cyrcle and you have the life span of ESF 1.2

Pros rising up, chasing away new people, and leaving because of easy pray. There are a few constant players, but those guys are just "Im waiting for the release and wasting time till then" with nearly no one of them who tried the open beta saying "Ill just wait for the finished thing" and the new people going "Its to buggy to play"

Yes the minion incident was the catalyst for the open beta, but we ran with it for 2 years with next to no results. With each release we stated that its a bug test version, with each release we put up a link to our bug tracking system with ALL known bugs listed there. We put stickies telling them what to expect, and how to report bugs and so on.

We did everything you mentioned plus made sure the Open Beta releases were as stable as we can get them costing us extra time just for that. The idea backfired and all we got was a crapload of complaints.

Doing the same thing, with an unoptimized version of the game thats a lot buggier sounds like a waste of time. Only this time we will chase people away saying "A supercomputer couldnt run this game" because shaders and the other GFX additions are not optimized and are causing bad FPS drops all over the thing.

I see your point, i really do. But we tried it and it didnt work. People are under the impression that the game is as shiny as the pictures we post, when in fact its not. So i think we are doing the lesser evil by keeping it a closed beta until release.

 

[LSSJ]

didnt know the beta was that monitored....i always thought it was like a unplaned accident the whole time....well then its maybe better that way.

its kinda bad you just cant filter all the forum guys here from child and usefull guys...in some hands the svn would sure be awesome idea....but well like this there is really no other choice....to bad but like "Z Power" said...its esf and when its done in 2years i gonna play it for sure

dont know what else to say.....gimme svn i wont tell anyone just kidding^^

 

[Skyrider]

dont know what else to say.....gimme svn i wont tell anyone

Even when you have SVN access, you still can't play .

 

[LSSJ]

ok i see.....then gimme the svn access and the pw i need or the name i have to run the game with i dont know what security **** you guys thought of

 

[maaman]

Well, you can always watch the anime again the burn these 2 years XD (Including Dragon ball and dragon ball GT Its should take about 2 years or so)

 

[Darth Revan]

But tell me yourself. Would you be willing to play a game that drops your FPS below 10 if you shoot kiblasts because of debug printouts that we need in order to locate the bug of them exploding in your face when you shoot, where the game locks up your keyboard randomly if you try to use the ingame chat, where effects continue to play even when they shouldnt because of errors causing your frames to drop, where your FPS take a dive every time an effect is played just because the effect call outs are either outdated or not optimized and so on.

YES to help find Said problems but like you say grega there are some who would moan So much its unreal.

 

[MrPlow]

YES to help find Said problems but like you say grega there are some who would moan So much its unreal.

No you wouldn't. You'd play the game for a while, report an obvious/well known bug or two then you'd get tired of it after a while and give up.... i think

 

[Skyrider]

Indeed. People would quit very easily when there are too many issues. Regardless of the quality (looks) of the game.

 

[LSSJ]

STOP!!!!!!!!! HAMMERTIME!!!!!!!!!!

cant touch this...................


btw the cant throw every guy into the same jar(or something like this^^)
sure some gonna lose the interesst.......sure some gonna moan......but also some......including me would be interessted following the progress and help without reporting already known bugs.....i can read you know! sure non of these 3 can speak for all........


anyway we are doomed!!! like the maya said in 2012 the world dies....so who cares

 

[MrPlow]

I think that a lot of people don't understand that beta testing is a job. It's not entertainment. Playing the finished product is considered entertainment. Sadly most wannabe beta testers are doing that solely to get to play the game early and then get disappointed in the unfinished product, thus by making the unfinished product open for public it will attract the wrong audience(those looking for entertainment not a job) and create an opposite effect. I've been a beta tester for numerous projects(mostly F2P games) for quite a few years now and generally these things end up like this. When the invites start the servers are full, yet the forums are empty. After a while the server population dwindles and the forums are still empty. Many promise to point out bugs and issues however very few seem to.

 

[MrKurt2011]

I think that a lot of people don't understand that beta testing is a job. It's not entertainment. Playing the finished product is considered entertainment. Sadly most wannabe beta testers are doing that solely to get to play the game early and then get disappointed in the unfinished product, thus by making the unfinished product open for public it will attract the wrong audience(those looking for entertainment not a job) and create an opposite effect. I've been a beta tester for numerous projects(mostly F2P games) for quite a few years now and generally these things end up like this. When the invites start the servers are full, yet the forums are empty. After a while the server population dwindles and the forums are still empty. Many promise to point out bugs and issues however very few seem to.

Trust me man,I got a lot of spare time and patience, I could fly around a map for hours shooting beams at stuff and etc. in every nook and cranny of a map to find flaws/bugs and or glitches. Basically doing crazy things that people might do or might not do when they play,but by myself all alone on a map.

 

[Sting]

I think that a lot of people don't understand that beta testing is a job. It's not entertainment. Playing the finished product is considered entertainment. Sadly most wannabe beta testers are doing that solely to get to play the game early and then get disappointed in the unfinished product, thus by making the unfinished product open for public it will attract the wrong audience(those looking for entertainment not a job) and create an opposite effect. I've been a beta tester for numerous projects(mostly F2P games) for quite a few years now and generally these things end up like this. When the invites start the servers are full, yet the forums are empty. After a while the server population dwindles and the forums are still empty. Many promise to point out bugs and issues however very few seem to.

I dont agree with you there MR Plow.
We do entertain a lot out there. True its a job but without having fun it will get boring quickly.
That means we entertain our self while we do our job.

As for the wannabe testers if they are dissapointed in the end results I would like to see them doing better
And most of them wont stay allong for a long time anyway. If they not reporting anything or never have time to help out there will be consequenses for that.
It seems in the past other beta testers who didnt spend much time on it are gone now. What happend in the past can happen in the future.

All I can say for now if you guys have patients enough the results will be far more further then you could dream of.
And I am not only talking about graphics but in many ways.
What we see is only a small picture of the end result.
And what we see is what you guys see every week in a POTW or in a MOTM.

 

[MrKurt2011]

I dont agree with you there MR Plow.
We do entertain a lot out there. True its a job but without having fun it will get boring quickly.
That means we entertain our self while we do our job.

As for the wannabe testers if they are dissapointed in the end results I would like to see them doing better
And most of them wont stay allong for a long time anyway. If they not reporting anything or never have time to help out there will be consequenses for that.
It seems in the past other beta testers who didnt spend much time on it are gone now. What happend in the past can happen in the future.

All I can say for now if you guys have patients enough the results will be far more further then you could dream of.
And I am not only talking about graphics but in many ways.
What we see is only a small picture of the end result.
And what we see is what you guys see every week in a POTW or in a MOTM.

Quick dumb question, do you guys test all at once or by yourselves just playing and looking for problems or a mix of the two, like sometimes all of you test at once and the option to test separately.

 

[Grega]

None and both. We are following test case documents for parts of the testing, other times we are checking specific bugs to provide feedback on them and other times we simply let loose in a server to see what happens.

 

[MrKurt2011]

None and both. We are following test case documents for parts of the testing, other times we are checking specific bugs to provide feedback on them and other times we simply let loose in a server to see what happens.

Sounds like my cup of tea, what is the catch good sir.