esf design documents

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i must say... WOW i love some of the stuff there =) the buddy system sounds really cool, the capture the dragonball mode seems much more thought out, i love it. i personally like the second possible advance melee outline though.. any one have any other thoughts?

http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=57392
 
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I read the Buddy, PS and Melee documents, and was blown away.

I luff the 2nd outline the best. It sounds awesome, if a little complicated, but I'm sure it will become 2nd nature, if they decide to implement that.

The Buddy System is a little like what I expected it to be.. and a little not. From what I can tell, the Buddy kinda hangs around you and does whatever you do, but has his own PL, Health and Ki. It sounds interesting.
 
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I love the Buddy System outline...looks like Tien will be getting Chiaotzu o/
 
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IF i would had Acrobat reader i could say something good too ^-^

But i have TXT editor ^^
Looks like the Dragonball Mode gonna be some Fun with the Mr.Satan or Dende in it. When i red that one right.

And its good that every Team has its own pair of balls ( :p )
--
 
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The buddy system reminds me of a sonic heroes kinda style, they dont compltly fight by themselves, but aid you in battle. Must be interesting to use in-game. As for the advanced melee, both ideas are better than the current one.
 
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Yea i like the buddy system too. I like the 2nd melee system best.
 
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the buddy system reminds me of smash brothers. the ice climbers
 
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clen said:
the buddy system reminds me of smash brothers. the ice climbers
that was it, I was trying to recall another haracter who played like that..

I wonder if the AI buddy dies, does that have a huge impact on the main player. Melee will be interesting having 2 people to fight one person.
 
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I'm kind of worried about some of this. After reading just a little bit I can see so many ways things could be scripted that would just dominate. An example:

"- Extra melee
Involving more mouse movement into simple melee. Right now, to determine a direction, you have anglehit, but this addition will allow you to choose a direction even without doing that (making it possibly easier for the newcommers). Basically, when you hit, your mouse movement depends the direction AND strength of the knockback.

Example, I approach an enemy, aim down rapidly and while doing so, hit the enemy. If I aimed down slowly, the hit would be less directional and not as strong. With a fast down-movement of the mouse, I hit him practically downwards and also alot harder.

With this idea in mind, you can create some fun (and hard moves). For instance, you swoop at someone, turn 360 degrees and then hit. If the system is done right, this would result in a very strong hit with a long knockback, eliminating the need of only using the swoopbooster to create a long knockback (even tho that swoopbooster still a must, for other reasons). In other words, the more and faster you move your mouse while getting a hit, the greater the damage and knockback will be. In theory, if you rotated 3 times (3x360 degrees), damage would be super high (but just imagine doing that while swooping) and might even be instant kill. Needs a cap to prevent beeing abused.

Darktooth once mentioned it would be cool if you could determine the direction for a hit. With this system you can, without the need of complex angles and moves. As long as you hit someone while moving your mouse to a certain direction, he will go that way more or less. Depening on how fast you move your mouse and how much you have moved it, damage and knockback will be determined. Imagine what kind of combos could be created, together with the current system (angles+doubletapswoop)."

WAY WAY too exploitable with scripts...After a recent vote that went against scripts I just thought I should point this out. Hell even if scripts were accepted this would need to be pointed out.
 
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somerandomguy said:
I'm kind of worried about some of this. After reading just a little bit I can see so many ways things could be scripted that would just dominate. An example:

"- Extra melee
Involving more mouse movement into simple melee. Right now, to determine a direction, you have anglehit, but this addition will allow you to choose a direction even without doing that (making it possibly easier for the newcommers). Basically, when you hit, your mouse movement depends the direction AND strength of the knockback.

Example, I approach an enemy, aim down rapidly and while doing so, hit the enemy. If I aimed down slowly, the hit would be less directional and not as strong. With a fast down-movement of the mouse, I hit him practically downwards and also alot harder.

With this idea in mind, you can create some fun (and hard moves). For instance, you swoop at someone, turn 360 degrees and then hit. If the system is done right, this would result in a very strong hit with a long knockback, eliminating the need of only using the swoopbooster to create a long knockback (even tho that swoopbooster still a must, for other reasons). In other words, the more and faster you move your mouse while getting a hit, the greater the damage and knockback will be. In theory, if you rotated 3 times (3x360 degrees), damage would be super high (but just imagine doing that while swooping) and might even be instant kill. Needs a cap to prevent beeing abused.

Darktooth once mentioned it would be cool if you could determine the direction for a hit. With this system you can, without the need of complex angles and moves. As long as you hit someone while moving your mouse to a certain direction, he will go that way more or less. Depening on how fast you move your mouse and how much you have moved it, damage and knockback will be determined. Imagine what kind of combos could be created, together with the current system (angles+doubletapswoop)."

WAY WAY too exploitable with scripts...After a recent vote that went against scripts I just thought I should point this out. Hell even if scripts were accepted this would need to be pointed out.
You prove a good point, I think maybe they overlooked it.
 

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I was worried about that part too. Not because of scripts though... Because it would make the game complicated, to complicated imo. Not only that, but it would reward people with higher mouse sensitivities and punish people without high mouse sensitivities. Looking at it, someone with a sensitivity of 6.5 (which, I currently use) has a clear disadvantage compared to someone with a sensitivity of 100 + (and there are people who use 100 +)

I did like a lot of other ideas in the second melee design doc. though, just not everything.
 
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Better start training with a higher sensitivity then. ;)

And yeah, this will all be awesome. And don't worry about scripting or exploits. We have an awesome testing team that will be able to help us find solutions to all our problems.
 
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Remember, alot of things are still uncertain, things are subject to change, and things have still yet to be fully discussed.
 
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Kama said:
Better start training with a higher sensitivity then. ;)

And yeah, this will all be awesome. And don't worry about scripting or exploits. We have an awesome testing team that will be able to help us find solutions to all our problems.
Sw33t, I knew my faith in you guys was not misplaced. The outlines sound very promising.
 
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Kama-

Mouse sensitivity is a personal preference...Some people are twitch and some are slow and steady. If something like that is brought in(ignoring the possibility of exploit) You are forcing people to play in a way they don't like to... ie 100 sens. Personally I believe this should be avoided....I think I will post something in the suggestion area that addresses the sens and scripting issue at the same time.

As for your second comment...Theres nothing wrong with being a little worried about scripting and exploits. Your comments here sound a little over optimistic. I'm not saying you don't have an awesome crew doing their very best to make sure things like that don't happen, but they are only human and its very easy to miss something or overlook something that seems small that turns out to be game changing. So I'll do a little worrying on the side to help catch the stuff if I can ;)

Davidskiwan - No doubt no doubt. Just pointing something out. Like I said to kama I will post something in suggestions perhaps it will help or perhaps the team has already thought of it. Who knows.
 

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somerandomguy said:
Kama-

Mouse sensitivity is a personal preference...Some people are twitch and some are slow and steady. If something like that is brought in(ignoring the possibility of exploit) You are forcing people to play in a way they don't like to... ie 100 sens. Personally I believe this should be avoided....I think I will post something in the suggestion area that addresses the sens and scripting issue at the same time.
Quoted for truth.
 

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Sub said:
Quoted for truth.
Quoted for spam.

If you agree, please elaborate a little bit instead of spamming. Thank you.
 
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Wow, these all sound great..... Even tho these are all just outline's and idea's.... it really show's how much work the team is doing. Good job.

The buddy system and the capture the dragon ball's sound's kool. Specially wif the collector having 1 1/2 times more strenght in melee. I can see ppl abusing this and going collector just to have the strenght. The balls will be ignored (imo the wishes suck) and the collector will just run around beating the stuffing outta everyone.

lol well that's my 2 cent's ~__^
 
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it really show's how much work the team is doing.
although it also shows how much work they're gonna be doing before 1.3 is out.
Btw, quite ironic imo, Kai is banned from these forums, while being listed in the melee pdf credits...
ESF Melee Document said:
Depening on how fast you move your mouse and how much you have moved it, damage and knockback will be determined. Imagine what kind of combos could be created, together with the current system (angles+doubletapswoop).
As somerandomguy (and someotherrandomguys) said, I think having damage and knockback determined depending on your mouse is a bad idea. If you still want the mkouse movement to decide something, it should be the knockback speed. Meaning the time it takes you to recover will be X seconds anyway, but the distance you go in that time will (slightly) differ according to the mouse movment.
 
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I am aware it could be scripted, which is why I labelled it as 'extra'.

I remember from The specialists, the backkick could also be scripted, but I also noticed some commands were disabled in ESF (such as pitchdown/up). I figured it would be possibly to block those 'move/turn' commands as well, meaning only a hack could actually do the trick.

Even then, having a high sensitivity will benefit you, but it can be capped. Maybe you guys can brainstorm a little on this, but like I said, it's just extra.
 

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