ESF 1.3 Melee Proposal – By VideoJinx

[VideoJinx]

Main System:
Melee Engage Feature: Controls how and which melee takes place.


Sub Systems:

Basic Melee: An optional Melee, while inside any fighting stance.

Advanced Melee: A melee that is only available in Fighting stance #2 and #3.
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There are three Terms you need to know.

Caution Zone: A *caution zone* is a fairly small radius around you, the player. When players enter your caution zone, depending on your situation it's possible that you'll automatically switch stances.

Stances: In this new engage feature, there are 3 stances. Each stance is a different fighting mode(stance) that a player alternates between automatically depending on his or her situation.

CoG(Caught Off Guard): This term describes the situation where an enemy enters your Caution Zone and forces you to switch your stance.

Side Note: When blocking/powering-up you’re always cautious, but if a player remains within your Caution Zone for 3 seconds while or after you've been blocking/powering-up, you'll automatically switch stances. If you release block/power-up with a player in your caution zone you have 2 seconds to get him out of your caution zone or you'll automatically switch stances.

Melee Engage System
Quote - “In this new engage feature, there are 3 stances. Each stance is a different fighting mode (stance) that a player alternates between automatically depending on his or her situation.”

Stance #1 is automatically initiated when no players are in your *cautious zone*. This stance is similar to the current ESF’s gameplay, where you double tap to swoop and you teleport fairly large distances, using Basic Melee and Long Distance Beams as your method of attacking.

Stance #2 is automatically initiated when you’re CoG(Caught off Guard) because 1 or more player(s) have entered your caution zone when you were not swooping or blocking/powering-up. Also know that the player who enters your Caution Zone must not be swooping for both players to switch stances. Once your stance has been switched, both player's caution zone increases to a fairly large size.
In this stance all moves are changed to fit the new melee in this stance. Short distance beams can be used while long distance beams would now be considered as special attacks that you'd have to work at to use. The melee would also be changed for this close combat situation. Swoop speeds and teleport distances and "how often a teleport can be used," would be adjusted to suit this "close-combat, 1vs1-or more," focused melee system". In stance two either player could try to escape this stance at any moment, but the attacker would try to prevent this by staying close to you, thus staying in your *Cautious Zone*.

Side Notes: This stance focuses on a close combat melee that's free and similar to stance 1 and doesn't limit players within a bubble. Either player may travel all over the map and remain in stance 2 depending on the players’ skills, unlike the advance melee we see in ESF 1.2. Also, the distance a Basic melee hit knocks a player back can be adjusted so that when the enemy recovers he doesn't inititate Stance #2 unless the attacker swoops/teleports into the enemy's Caution Zone. Also, there should be a (CoG) Delay after a basic melee recover.

Stance #3 is essentially stance #2, only with more then 1 enemy. In this stance you’re capable of using the Turbo Swoop as seen in ESF 1.3 Open Beta, to escape.

Side Note: You can only use the Turbo Swoop while in Stance #3 and Stance #1 when your Ki is at its' max. This move is disabled when in Stance #2.

Stance #2 and Stance #3 Stamina & Movement

Note: Stamina, unlike ki recharges automatically and quickly after being used, and now serves 3 purposes in these two stances. (Balance, Endurance, and Downtime)

Balance
When hit with basic melee, your stamina becomes completely drained causing you to be knocked back and off balance. When hit with adv melee attacks, you lose chunks of stamina. Being hit to, or with 0 stamina causes you to lose balance and you’ll be knocked back. During the knockback, your stamina will automatically recover fairly quickly.

Endurance
Swooping still drains ki, but now it also drains stamina. If you use up all your stamina while swooping, your swoop speed reduces to a slower, *tired* speed. You may continue to swoop at the tired speed for as long as you want, but to swoop at normal speed you’ll have to stop and let your stamina recharge.

Downtime
(Still Debating)

Note: How fast players can teleport repeatedly is now limited when on the ground or in the air, while in stance #2 and #3 to prevent easy escape of the fighting stance.

Repeated Teleport Limiter
To teleport, you need the specified amount of ki and stamina to teleport. If you have enough you’ll successfully teleport at a very high cost to stamina. After the teleport, you’ll instantly begin to regain the stamina you spent on the teleport at a gradual rate.

Note: Stamina is mainly used in this Melee System to allow you to keep your balance when taking hits. Basic melee completely drains your stamina, causing you to be knocked back. Adv Melee hits take chunks of your stamina, and if hit too much you can be knocked back. So, being hit soon after a teleport could cause you to lose balance and be knocked back, leaving you potentially open for more adv or basic melee attacks.

Ground Scenario
While on the ground, ESF 1.2’s old jump is replaced with a new quick jump. The quick jump isn’t a “jump” upwards or off the ground, but is more of a jump to a new spot on the ground. The teleport is now changed into a tele-jump.

New Jump Mechanics: Hold left, right, or back and press the Jump key to perform the new “quick-jump”.

New Tele-Jump Mechanics: Hold the teleport button, and press any direction to teleport. Pressing the Up button will cause you to teleport back into your original place. Pressing back will cause you to teleport backwards. Pressing any other direction will cause you to teleport in that direction, but you will face the opposite direction. (For example, if I teleport to my left, I’ll be facing the spot where I teleported from. If I teleport forward, I’ll be facing the opposite direction.

Here is an example of both moves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUMWXpJeVuA

Swooping: Hold powerup + a direction to begin traveling in that direction. Swooping in #2 and #3 now spends your stamina. Because stamina recharges quickly, you can swoop until you have no more ki to spend, but there is a catch. Your character can get tired if you swoop beyond your stamina limit. If you swoop longer then your character can take your swoop will gradually begin to slow down, and when you decide to stop, your stamina may take a longer to recharge, depending on how much you went over your stamina limit. As you begin to regain stamina, the rate that you gain stamina will gradually increase back to normal. Using this swoop is a great way to create some distance between you and your enemy(s), but you must be sure not to over do it. Halo’s health recharge for the xbox, is a great example of the speed that stamina recharges, but it would possibly be a bit slower.

Sky Scenario:

Stance #2 & #3 Hover and Walking Features:

Basic and Advanced Melee Concepts

In my opinion, we should not think of basic melee as a complete melee system itself. We should see it as a “Basic” offensive part of the whole System. This allows us to think of adv melee, not as an entire melee system itself, but a sub-system that compliments Basic melee to make “The new melee system”. In the end I believe we want basic and adv melee interacting together, and this is the idea I purpose.

Note: Basic Melee is now divided into two types, “Close-Combat Basic Melee”, and “Regular Basic Melee.”

There are three Terms you need to know.



Regular Basic Melee is very similar to the current ESF’s basic melee, but with possible tweaks here and their. This is the basic melee used only in Stance #1.

Close-Combat Basic Melee is a more in-depth Basic melee that can only be used while in Stance #2 and Stance #3

Advanced Melee can only be used while in stance #2 and #3. It is now interactive with Basic melee and allows you, the player to have complete freedom of movement and the “melee of your choice”.

Note: Advance melee is what dominates in close combat situations, but this doesn’t mean that basic melee is limited or restricted. This only means that the Advanced Melee has an advantage in close combat situations, and yes I’m sure there will be many times when you’ll want to use basic melee in a close combat situation.

Edit--

The Melee System Controls

This combo system consists of 2 attack buttons, and one defensive button.

[Punch](L-Click), [Kick](R-Click) and [Block]( which ever button fits best)

With these two buttons, this system will have an in-depth fighting system consisting from a variety of moves, unique to each character.

Advanced Melee Controls:

[Punch]: L-Click

[Kick] R-Click

[Block](which ever button fits best)

[Counter]: Kick + Block

[Grab]: Punch + Kick

Note: Adv Melee controls activate when hovering or not doing any action that involves swooping.

Close-Combat Basic Melee Controls:

[Power Hit/Block Breaker]: Punch + Powerup or Kick + Powerup (Hold both buttons to charge any attack of your combo, Hold as long as possible to perform the Block Breaker... you can combine this with any combo at any time.. Example: P,P-Hold and that would be the end of the combo.

Regular Basic Melee Controls:
Basic melee is now auto-matic. To perform basic melee, swoop into an opponent. *Regular* Basic melee isn't possible when hovering.

 

[KYnetiK]

This is all very well and good, but how do you propose we actually fight? Theres nothing here which dictates how we actually control launching an attack and what happens when one does, just the parameters that we find ourselves in before we can attack. I know youre not finished, but i feel this is a key part which should be fairly thought through before having posted thus far.

I feel like this quickly becomes needlessly complicated. Try and explain how to melee to a n00b with this systems many parameters =þ I like some of the rules of engagement, but i fear translating into gameplay will be too chaotic.

I must say i like the ground jump idea, but i still want to be able to jump up in the air in the direction im moving if i want to. It would be good to incorporate both. Sometimes i get frustrated trying to move to the spot on the ground i want without initiating a swoop, so this can be useful.

I also think the telejump shouldnt automatically change where you are facing. Thats what aiming is for. Its not difficult to pivot whilst you are teleporting. Anyways, finish it up a bit more before posting, theres a lot missing for a design doc.

 

[VideoJinx]

That's the tweakin part.. =] it's being tweaked

 

[KYnetiK]

I dont mean to be a pain, but I notice people get annoyed at you very often for posting unfinished ideas. It would be wise for you to have a solid outline before you post. For something as deep as melee, psuedocode ready for the programmers to structure things quickly. Just a tip.

 

[VideoJinx]

I'm copying / pasting and editing from a word doc what i think should be here @ the moment... relax..

 

[VideoJinx]

You say that "..depending on your situation it's possible that you'll automatically switch stances."
.[/size]

It depends on the situation.. if i swoop into your Caution zone, and continue swooping.. there will be NO change in stance, but if i can stop close enough to you when your not swooping.. then it will automatically change stances.... that's what it meant.. there is really NO chance involved @ all

 

[Snowm@n]

wooow, another bible from Jinx. Were do you get all the ideas from?

 

[Dokutayuu]

It does sound rather half-baked. You don't want to give us food-poisoning, do you? Your ideas are good but need a little more refining and more bullet points.

I don't think that your idea would be used much in it's current state, it seems too elaborate and the stances don't seem too well defined. How can you have close-combat melee and longer range melee?

 

[KYnetiK]

"But the thing is, you should do that when you post the thread, and not afterwards."



I kind of like the controls now that youve added them, in fact its a bit similar to my idea, but it will be very bad with ping. Also, you havent considered things like attack collisions, stun delays, optimal tactics, grab struggling, tangible hint of how much animation work that needs to be done. Is it one punch and one Kick or not? You need to really break every instance down so coders dont have gaps and guessing games.


If you had a solid full design document you should post it in the first instance and avoid us *****in about missing content.

 

[Grega]

It depends on the situation.. if i swoop into your Caution zone, and continue swooping.. there will be NO change in stance, but if i can stop close enough to you when your not swooping.. then it will automatically change stances.... that's what it meant.. there is really NO chance involved @ all

So if i just swoop and simple melee you you dont swich stances?

(no i have not read all of it yet i will do so later.)

Must say thisone sounds kinda interesting though.

 

[VideoJinx]

"But the thing is, you should do that when you post the thread, and not afterwards."



I kind of like the controls now that youve added them, in fact its a bit similar to my idea, but it will be very bad with ping. Also, you havent considered things like attack collisions, stun delays, optimal tactics, grab struggling, tangible hint of how much animation work that needs to be done. Is it one punch and one Kick or not? You need to really break every instance down so coders dont have gaps and guessing games.


If you had a solid full design document you should post it in the first instance and avoid us *****in about missing content.

Yes i have.. but i'de rather show them with a vid.. to actually go thorugh and type it all out would be pointless especially if people won't get the main idea.. i have the perfect example.. but first im gonna Polish my idea on the forums so everyone can understand it.. BUT ive already thought it all the way through in my head.. adv melee a set of 3 or 4 combos that you may delay at any moment or simpy perform the combo @ max speed. You may literally stop after any hit in your combo.. and do anything else.. if your enemy reacts fast enough he can prevent you from escaping by attacking.. etc... etc.. during adv melee u can also charge any hit within the combo allowing a knock back ... but becuz your in stance #2/#3 this knockback different/more in-depth.... Your able to curve the knock back making it more difficult to hit.. and the knockback distance is shorter... etc etc etc.. im thinkin about some transitions

So if i just swoop and simple melee you you dont swich stances?

(no i have not read all of it yet i will do so later.)

Must say thisone sounds kinda interesting though.

Yea thats exactly what happens, I think this is great because it doesn't interfere with basic melee at all, and even when your caught off gaurd there is a more indepth masic melee that's possible to be used.. but i'm still workin it out in my head..

 

[KYnetiK]

" You should do that when you post the thread, and not afterwards.
If you had a solid full design document you should post it in the first instance and avoid us *****in about missing content. "

You dont seem to be listening, and perpetuate the problem with your justification.

I know you have it in your head, but we cant see inside your head unless you articulate your vision through here. You should have it polished BEFORE posting it here. Thats the point everyones making.
Youre too eager to post it, and thats annoying people. To type it all out at the first instance actually gives people the right idea in full detail, and no excuse not to get it, because youve already polished it.
The fact that you leave large gaps and guessing games is inviting negative, wasteful posts, which could have been avoided. The less you annoy people, the better the chances that your idea is listened to. Have everything prepared FIRST then post.....


I like a few of your ideas on this one, but seeing it bit by bit is aggravating. The little bits of the outline that i disagree with ive already mentioned. With these things fixed, i very much like this system, I hope your plans on countering latency are solid enough to make it playable.

 

[Thunder67467]

Well, Not to be on a side, I don't think it seems right to bash someone for not finishing an idea all in one post, YET I know the problem in not posting it all the way to begin with, I mean if anything we could just simply talk it out as a community to help get ideas that formulate together instead of just immediately striking someone for even giving suggestions (Half done or not.) Just give the time to let someone put their ideas tighter and more leak free Thats all im saying.

Now as to the idea, Different stances would seem more unique...but also might cause a problem. What I mean by that is, The way it seems is..."If their in your caution zone, then you have a certain amount of time to get them out" Well..What if I just fly around and keep teleporting...No one would be able to get in my zone and thus would make it pointless to try to fight me. Just something I wanted to point out...but if im off on this maybe I read it wrong.

 

[KYnetiK]

Youve got to realise Thunder, that Jinx is guilty for doing it all too often and fails to heed advice, Im only trying to assist him in reducing his future stress from members by telling him how to not perpetuate the problem. You should have a tight idea before posting, one has all the time in the world to do this when proposing an outline. I know what youre trying to say Thunder, but as a community we should also listen to the overwhelming advice of our peers.

On your question of the outline, the idea is that your ability to teleport and escape are restricted by your stats (ki/stamina) as one enters your caution zone. A lot of the skill in this system I imagine would be catching people out before they can make up distance and escape. It would be hard to balance out all the ki/stamina costs IMO but its an interesting idea nonetheless.