Discussion: Scripting/Exploiting

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Sephize said:
I would take this up in PM, but since u brought this up in this thread I'll do it here: I want u to get a warning for provoking flames. Imo u were very well aware that u could expect a flame on that. U as a moderator should know what lines could cause a flame. This time I choose to do a flame, but that doesn't exclude u from provoking it
On the contrary - you will take this to PM's, or you will be the one responsible for this thread being closed.

As for Ravendust's post - allow me to quote it:

Ravendust said:
Whether a script gives you a 1% advantage or a 99% advantage, you still have an advantage over regular players, and you use that advantage to win. At least with exploits it's something everyone can do, whereas scripts just make it unfair.
Stating that scripts offer an unfair advantage is hardly provocation. If you have a genuine problem with his behaviour in that post, you take it up with me in a PM. Understand? I hope so.
 
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Sephize said:
As we all know: I disagree. For the simple reason a script can be a powerful tool to beat someone using an exploit.

Exploits: roll exploit, ceiling roll, blocklame, adv melee glitch, roll stop and im sure i left a lot out.
ESF: CS 1.6 style.

Blocking aint laming, neither is it an exploit.

Think away around it, you sound more like a CS newbie who cant stand the awp.

Sephize said:
Theres also playingstyle, which u cannot take out. The way I see it, if both had the same skill, they would either both be using scripts or none at all. If 1 was using scripts and the other wasn't, then that means that they weren't of the same skill seeing as 1 honed his "skills" with a script and the other with the original controls.

Suppose Sarutobi isn't scripting, I don't know if he is, I think so, but I'm not sure and I'm not going into that discussion, he proved that it is possible to beat every player, with or without scripts by using a style which I personally hate.

I can beat Omni, but I cant beat Sarutobi, yet I'm pretty equal to Omni with my scripts, why is it that I cant beat Sarutobi? Simply because it also takes aim and laming nowadays.

There is always a difference in performance when it comes to someone using a script and one who isn't using a script. Basicly, a scripter might be able to swoop faster, but lacks the ability to predict where the other player will have a jam or 2 THAT IS if he used the script when he started playing ESF the first day. I for 1 feed off of the mistakes of the other player, just like I still have jams WITH the script, however since I played without scripts for a long time, I generally know when a player will have a jam and he won't know when I get them. It's not that I have more skill, I just have more knowledge of the game then the other.



Are u saying ur not whining about the scripts now? If u don't want the other to have an advantage: make a script, otherwise I see no reason to ur whining about it. And tbh it's getting boring. 1 person will have the advantage of a more steady aim, the other will have the advantage that he/she knows a lot more about coding then the other and has extensive knowledge on how to use a searchengine and find FAQs and guides to scripting. Why is it so hard to code? basicly all the key mapping u did in options is the same damn thing, except it has a nice little grafical interface to it. Are u saying that u never changed ur controls?

Imo a script is NOT a cheat. In fact u cant even compare them to cheats. Also a script is not placed in some scripts folder...

If u want to play against a scripter, I'm sure Carnage will be happy to duel u sometimes, otherwise I will. That is if Vossey ever comes back.

In my case, it's not WHEN I lose, its HOW I lose, but I gave up screaming and yelling at people that use a lame style and saying that they're lame or script or cheat, because they weren't going to stop anyway. Instead I will use my knowledge of coding/configing/tweaking to get that grin off their faces.
Just because his playingstyle, is smarter, better and you cant win, doesnt mean its lame.

What totally cranked me up,
Sephize said:
Simply because it also takes aim and laming nowadays.
Welcome to the FPS world, Captain Obivious.

Sephize said:
What's wrong with programming? I like programming. I'd even post my script, but I guess that would get me another warning

*You weren't warned. You were close to it tho
-Deverz


This time ;) there was another time when I did get a warning :)
IMO, people want ESF molded there way so they can be good at it.

Scripting is lame for a FACT, so are exploits.

For one scripting is lame since it does gives you unfair advantages, if you find your keyboard unresponsives with double tapping, you can do 3 things.

1. Get better
2. Get used to it
3. Get a new keyboard

Just because, you dont like every aspect of the game, doesnt mean scripting is ok.

CS 1.6 situation:
Hey I dont like the darn reload time, ooh well lets download the reload script, which makes me reload 3 times faster.
 
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And what exactly did I say to provoke you? I simply stated using scripts gives an unfair advantage, which is true. You wouldn't use them if it didn't would you? Of course I wasn't 'expecting a flame', if you can't post here without flaming then don't post here. If you can't then we'll do it for you. Hence the warning.

Any more discussion on the topic should be taken straight to PM's. Keep it on topic.

EDIT: Ah in the time it's taken me to write that I see Maj has intervened, and what he said is true. The warning stands, if you have any problems, PM me.
 
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Devion said:
ESF: CS 1.6 style.

Blocking aint laming, neither is it an exploit.

Think away around it, you sound more like a CS newbie who cant stand the awp.



Just because his playingstyle, is smarter, better and you cant win, doesnt mean its lame.

What totally cranked me up,

Welcome to the FPS world, Captain Obivious.



IMO, people want ESF molded there way so they can be good at it.

Scripting is lame for a FACT, so are exploits.

For one scripting is lame since it does gives you unfair advantages, if you find your keyboard unresponsives with double tapping, you can do 3 things.

1. Get better
2. Get used to it
3. Get a new keyboard

Just because, you dont like every aspect of the game, doesnt mean scripting is ok.

CS 1.6 situation:
Hey I dont like the darn reload time, ooh well lets download the reload script, which makes me reload 3 times faster.
In that case I will use scripts like a buy script in CS and feel good about it. I will mold the game using scripts to my liking. And I will try and beat anybody with a "smarter", lamer playingstyle then me. I'll just stand there and also spam beams and when someone comes at me, I'll just blocklame and beamjump 80hp from him/her/it. In the meantime I will beamjump around the map and occasionally do some melee, so it cannot be considered as beamspam.

Guess it all depends on what u personally think is lame. Guess my sense of laming is different then urs. Infact Scripting is not lame, Blocklaming isn't either and using 6hit is obvious enormous skill...

So tell me, can i join u for some fish while ur camping in cs? Maybe I can even get some more headshots behind the box if they kill u first heh

Edit: The last question isn't meant to be a flame, but a sincere question, 1 I hope will be answered with a neat reply.
 
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If playing lame is to be accepted as a better style, then it means that always going for the easiest way to win, regardless if it's fun or not, is the best way to go. With such an attitude, you can't possibly expect to have fun except by yourself.

Playing with 'honor' means you adapt your style so your opponent can have as much fun (winning or not) as he can. Using any kind of 'cheapness' basically tells him to shut up. If you use cheap tricks and exploits you basically say "shut up, I'm doing anything to win, even if it means spoil your fun and disrespect you in any way possible"

A game isn't a matter of life and death, if it was war, yeh you'd go for the win cos your life is at stake. But if you play a game, it's mean to be entertainment and you have to respect the 'unwritten rules'. In a soccer game, you don't kick somebody in the shins and say 'it's just a game'. You violated his right to have fun by offending him, same goes for anything that involves more than one person. People interact with eachother which will sometimes lead to conflict. By playing 'lame' (which is different for everybody) you create that conflict and if you're not willing to change, you're practically spitting someone in the face.

People seem to forget the line between tactics and just being cheap. I can't possibly imagine it being fun to the same thing over and over again unless I'm possesed with winning. If you want to win THAT bad, you shouldn't play games. Competition is healthy but you can overdo it.
 

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This is too funny. I've been reading bits and pieces of this thread, and quite a few people have no idea what they're talking about. "Hit, tele, charge, aim blah blah blah" type things don't exist. That's pure player skill, the said script would be so set in stone that it could only work under the same circumstances EVERYtime you hit someone in the first place. It will not happen- you're going to hit then into a different spot on the map, which will alter your FPS slightly, which will affect the "wait;" command, which will make the said script impossible to fine tune to any form of usfullness.

If you people want an idea of how scripts work, here. I'll write you one right now that cannot be used for any form of usefulness in this game. It's a "semi-auto fire rate script," more commonly known as the infamous "pistol script" you may have heard about in other games.

Here it is-
alias +pscript "+attack;"
alias -pscript "-attack; wait; +attack; wait; -attack;"
bind mouse1 +pscript

Do you realize what this said script does? It fires once when you click, and again when you lift. This changes nothing in games though, as just about every HL mod out there has a pistol ROF (Rate of Fire) cap. It simply saves wear and tear on your finger and mouse. It doesn't change your ability to aim, it doesn't change your ability to fire that fast. It makes it less of a problem for your hardware.

Double tap scripts do offer an advantage in this game, I believe, but it's very minor indeed unless you've got crippled fingers.

I say, if someone wants to script, let them. It's part of the HL engine, left in the game for players to enjoy at their lesiure.

I don't use scripts. Just getting that outta the way, so people don't retort with "OMZ U SCRITP LAMRA" or whatever.

Oh, and you don't DL scripts. They're lines of text one can put in their config in order to perform commands. A "reload script" as someone called it cannot exist, that changes the limitations of the game. Scripts cannot bypass in-game limitations. What you saw is called a "speedhack."

Hacking is a much different story for a much different topic. It is in no way the same as scripting, as scripting was left in the HL engine for players to use at their will whereas hacking is going to non-supported websites to download the ability to do things physically impossible in game. I won't go into detail unless a different thread might require me to do so.
 
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Ok lets keep the off topic arguements down


Now NGE thx for the reply that was informative, but what you are basically saying is let scripters script because its possible on the HL engine. The problem with the swoop script is this...a person who is going against someone w/out script while they have one does indeed have an advantage. I for one support scripts that are available to the public...I would like to see everyone have access to easier swooping. To me dble tap limits people too much, BUT when a game comes down to the haves and have nots its not fair and creates advantages for the haves. The ultimate point of this thread of mine is to make the devs aware of the advantages that having scripts give, and to make the ease that scripts provide available to the public...in the spirit of even competition.

I already posted an idea on how to make it work and I copied it to the 1.3 big thread up top. I feel if you make swooping easier and tele easier most these scripts would go away. Now there will always be scripts, but I'm trying to identify the ones that will help. Then I want them incoorperated into the game for the people that dont know how to script.


O and Sephize.....let's face it. We all know you script. We know that you script because your fingers can't do what your scripts do. fine
But
I want the scripts you use available to everone to stop advantages. That way..you will no longer have an advantage just because you have the know how to program. Whatever you post to validify your use of scripts is void UNTIL they are public or incoorperated into the game. This is do to the fact that you WILL have an advantage no matter how big or how small.

Keep the ideas coming and off topic arguements need to stop. On topic debates are welcomed if civilized.
 
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I do believe u have a problem with stopping. Very well, seeing as people need to learn how to use exploits, The same goes with scripting: http://www.cs-extreme.net/guides/scripting/scripting.asp

There now it's public and that concludes this topic. Actually this was public already long before this topic ever started, just like people can easily find cheats on the Internet, but the cheats are not encoding in the HL engine and are therefor referred to as cheats.

On the point of using my nickname in 1 of ur posts: I must say I find it rather ... well not smart if i may use the term... of u not to search for a guide on scripting on ur own. Clearly u did not use any sort of method on finding a guide prior to making this topic. And I must honestly say that it gives me the feeling that u never knew what u were talking about.

ESF-world is a site dedicated to ESF, but it is NOT THE official site of ESF. Therefor there might be more sites ESF related that are not mentioned here, but can easily be found with a search engine of some kind.

As advice to people that will now try to make scripts: Learn how to script and use these scripts if u want and at ur own risk. I will NOT hand out any details whatsoever on how to think logically and make these scripts. If a server does not allow scripts, turn them off or get banned or whatever.

On a side note: Awesome posts of both carnage and nge. I have nothing more to add in this topic now except this: Any problems with the 3rd section: take it up in PM.
 
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Carnage said:
If playing lame is to be accepted as a better style, then it means that always going for the easiest way to win, regardless if it's fun or not, is the best way to go. With such an attitude, you can't possibly expect to have fun except by yourself.

Playing with 'honor' means you adapt your style so your opponent can have as much fun (winning or not) as he can. Using any kind of 'cheapness' basically tells him to shut up. If you use cheap tricks and exploits you basically say "shut up, I'm doing anything to win, even if it means spoil your fun and disrespect you in any way possible"

A game isn't a matter of life and death, if it was war, yeh you'd go for the win cos your life is at stake. But if you play a game, it's mean to be entertainment and you have to respect the 'unwritten rules'. In a soccer game, you don't kick somebody in the shins and say 'it's just a game'. You violated his right to have fun by offending him, same goes for anything that involves more than one person. People interact with eachother which will sometimes lead to conflict. By playing 'lame' (which is different for everybody) you create that conflict and if you're not willing to change, you're practically spitting someone in the face.

People seem to forget the line between tactics and just being cheap. I can't possibly imagine it being fun to the same thing over and over again unless I'm possesed with winning. If you want to win THAT bad, you shouldn't play games. Competition is healthy but you can overdo it.
You are missing the point, so is Sephize.

What you find cheap is just being smarter then you, scripting is lame since it isnt a part of the game.
If you cant handle if somebody is playing cheap, quit playing the game or change your tactic.

YOU must change the way to fight if you wanna win, not the guy who is playing in your opinion "cheap"(smarter).
You guys are basically saying, people need to change their tactic to mine own or change because I cant win.

Example: In CS you can camp all you like, I dont care its, a part of the game.(I can do the same, with scripting you cant)

Using script to make your gun reload faster is just lame, as it gives you an advantage that a normal users cant use.

I'm not totally against scripting, like buyscript or afk script, because it wont effect the outcome.

nge said:
This is too funny. I've been reading bits and pieces of this thread, and quite a few people have no idea what they're talking about. "Hit, tele, charge, aim blah blah blah" type things don't exist. That's pure player skill, the said script would be so set in stone that it could only work under the same circumstances EVERYtime you hit someone in the first place. It will not happen- you're going to hit then into a different spot on the map, which will alter your FPS slightly, which will affect the "wait;" command, which will make the said script impossible to fine tune to any form of usfullness.

If you people want an idea of how scripts work, here. I'll write you one right now that cannot be used for any form of usefulness in this game. It's a "semi-auto fire rate script," more commonly known as the infamous "pistol script" you may have heard about in other games.

Here it is-
alias +pscript "+attack;"
alias -pscript "-attack; wait; +attack; wait; -attack;"
bind mouse1 +pscript

Do you realize what this said script does? It fires once when you click, and again when you lift. This changes nothing in games though, as just about every HL mod out there has a pistol ROF (Rate of Fire) cap. It simply saves wear and tear on your finger and mouse. It doesn't change your ability to aim, it doesn't change your ability to fire that fast. It makes it less of a problem for your hardware.

Double tap scripts do offer an advantage in this game, I believe, but it's very minor indeed unless you've got crippled fingers.

I say, if someone wants to script, let them. It's part of the HL engine, left in the game for players to enjoy at their lesiure.

I don't use scripts. Just getting that outta the way, so people don't retort with "OMZ U SCRITP LAMRA" or whatever.

Oh, and you don't DL scripts. They're lines of text one can put in their config in order to perform commands. A "reload script" as someone called it cannot exist, that changes the limitations of the game. Scripts cannot bypass in-game limitations. What you saw is called a "speedhack."

Hacking is a much different story for a much different topic. It is in no way the same as scripting, as scripting was left in the HL engine for players to use at their will whereas hacking is going to non-supported websites to download the ability to do things physically impossible in game. I won't go into detail unless a different thread might require me to do so.
You did had CS reload script, in 1.3 for example.

Or any other script in CS, like the AWP script.(Fast reload, has been removed luckily)

Also what you were saying about ROFscript, yeah that IS lame.
It gives you an advantages other players dont have and cannot use.
 
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Devion said:
You are missing the point, so is Sephize.

What you find cheap is just being smarter then you, scripting is lame since it isnt a part of the game.
If you cant handle if somebody is playing cheap, quit playing the game or change your tactic.

YOU must change the way to fight if you wanna win, not the guy who is playing in your opinion "cheap"(smarter).
You guys are basically saying, people need to change their tactic to mine own or change because I cant win.

Example: In CS you can camp all you like, I dont care its, a part of the game.(I can do the same, with scripting you cant)

Using script to make your gun reload faster is just lame, as it gives you an advantage that a normal users cant use.

I'm not totally against scripting, like buyscript or afk script, because it wont effect the outcome.
Then by making the script, I am smarter then the other guy. Since scripting is part of the engine.

As for a reload script to make u reload faster, that is impossible. Scripts cannot overcome limits of the game, for instance a script cannot defeat my opponent in 1 second by just pressing a button. Unless they didn't put a limit on the reload ofcourse. In which case it would be an exploit combined with a script.

I didn't say people had to change their tactics. I just stated that not everyone wants to play as lame as them. I don't see them adjusting their playingstyle so I can enjoy playing the game, so why should I start playing like them when I can make a script so that I can use my own playinstyle and still beat them?

If I could make a script that would instantly kill everyone of whom I think are lame on the second that their little halo disappears, I'd be a very happy man. I guess that script could also be considered a playingstyle called instant-lamer-killing-style.

Also a script is a script. If I were to make a script that said something when I press the button, it would give me a huge advantage since another person cannot typekill me and I would still say the thing I wanted to say.

If your so against scripts, why don't u stop playing?
 
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Sephize said:
Then by making the script, I am smarter then the other guy. Since scripting is part of the engine.

As for a reload script to make u reload faster, that is impossible. Scripts cannot overcome limits of the game, for instance a script cannot defeat my opponent in 1 second by just pressing a button. Unless they didn't put a limit on the reload ofcourse. In which case it would be an exploit combined with a script.

I didn't say people had to change their tactics. I just stated that not everyone wants to play as lame as them. I don't see them adjusting their playingstyle so I can enjoy playing the game, so why should I start playing like them when I can make a script so that I can use my own playinstyle and still beat them?

If I could make a script that would instantly kill everyone of whom I think are lame on the second that their little halo disappears, I'd be a very happy man. I guess that script could also be considered a playingstyle called instant-lamer-killing-style.

Also a script is a script. If I were to make a script that said something when I press the button, it would give me a huge advantage since another person cannot typekill me and I would still say the thing I wanted to say.

If your so against scripts, why don't u stop playing?
You again miss the point completely.

Can I use scripts, ondemand ingame?(No scripts installed)
No.

Are scripts part of the game?
No.

Does it gives you (unfair) advantages?
Yes.

Does it overcome limits within the game?
No.(But does overcome human possibillities)

Scripts defer only at one point with cheats and that is that hack overcome limits of the game.(Wallhack)

And yes there was a reload hack(scripts) back in CS1.3 and there was even one for AWP 1.6(Not real reload, but something like fast switching twice, only ALOT faster)

Sephize said:
I didn't say people had to change their tactics. I just stated that not everyone wants to play as lame as them. I don't see them adjusting their playingstyle so I can enjoy playing the game, so why should I start playing like them when I can make a script so that I can use my own playinstyle and still beat them?
Leave the game or play smarter.

Carnage said:
A game isn't a matter of life and death, if it was war, yeh you'd go for the win cos your life is at stake. But if you play a game, it's mean to be entertainment and you have to respect the 'unwritten rules'. In a soccer game, you don't kick somebody in the shins and say 'it's just a game'. You violated his right to have fun by offending him, same goes for anything that involves more than one person. People interact with eachother which will sometimes lead to conflict. By playing 'lame' (which is different for everybody) you create that conflict and if you're not willing to change, you're practically spitting someone in the face.
Play on your own server.

Also your being unbelievable hypocrite.
People should respect unwritten rules and you script to win?

You are saying: "I dont play to win", but you use scripts only for one purposes, being faster, stronger and basically winning.
 
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Sephize...thats a lot of anger towards people that consider scripting wrong. When in fact it is wrong and it gives you an unfair advantage. If the Devs coded the swooping the way it was....problems are solved.
 
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I'm surprised nobodies mentioned the good old 60-arrows script. There's no way any human could get 60 arrows in adv melee naturally, in fact you'd be stretching with 20.
 
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So basicly it comes down to two main views on this subject. One side sees it as wrong and wants all people to stop using scripts. They also want the mod dev members to take steps to lower the usefullness of scripts. The other side has the view that because they know how to make scripts they should be able to use them all they want. If others want to use scripts themselves they should just go learn to script and write them. Is this about right?

The way I see it is that the mod dev team did not wish for people to use scripts. Because of this scripters have been pushed off into the dark corners and few will admit that they are using scripts. So I have to ask is there really anyway to stop people from using scripts? The way this engine works its just too easy. You may as well be telling people that you can't use your thumbs while playing this game...It would be about as hard to stop people from doing that as scripting in this game.

So while the honest people who are playing it how the dev team wish are getting the shaft the people using scripts are just chuckling about it in the backround. I've seen this sort of thing in another game I played. High ranking teams would recruit scripters just to get high end scripts and keep them from the public just to keep that little extra edge. And scripting was perfectly legal there....So is disallowing scripts the way people really want to go?

Personally I think the community should just accept the fact that scripting is pretty damn impossible to stop and detect in this game. The engine was designed with it in mind and this mod requires a lot of keypresses. So just say to heck with it and allow scripts to become public. This will make scripts readily available to all instead of just a select few and even the playing field.
 
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somerandomguy said:
So basicly it comes down to two main views on this subject. One side sees it as wrong and wants all people to stop using scripts. They also want the mod dev members to take steps to lower the usefullness of scripts. The other side has the view that because they know how to make scripts they should be able to use them all they want. If others want to use scripts themselves they should just go learn to script and write them. Is this about right?

The way I see it is that the mod dev team did not wish for people to use scripts. Because of this scripters have been pushed off into the dark corners and few will admit that they are using scripts. So I have to ask is there really anyway to stop people from using scripts? The way this engine works its just too easy. You may as well be telling people that you can't use your thumbs while playing this game...It would be about as hard to stop people from doing that as scripting in this game.

So while the honest people who are playing it how the dev team wish are getting the shaft the people using scripts are just chuckling about it in the backround. I've seen this sort of thing in another game I played. High ranking teams would recruit scripters just to get high end scripts and keep them from the public just to keep that little extra edge. And scripting was perfectly legal there....So is disallowing scripts the way people really want to go?

Personally I think the community should just accept the fact that scripting is pretty damn impossible to stop and detect in this game. The engine was designed with it in mind and this mod requires a lot of keypresses. So just say to heck with it and allow scripts to become public. This will make scripts readily available to all instead of just a select few and even the playing field.
Because scripts arent like thumbs.

Every normal persons has thumbs, not scripts, it makes the battle unnaturally uneven(unlike skill).

What another game "allows" is not the concern of ESF, now is it?
 
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Please read...or reread my entire post before responding to it. That comment about another game was simply an example to show how far people will go for that "edge". There it was a perfectly legal edge....I can only imagine how things go in the backround with the script hoarding since its technically illegal here.
 
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You have the game... and you have players, they can play the game whatever, but then one player who adds a script to his copy of the game, to make something easier for him to do, or so its automated so he doesnt have to do whatever he's scripted for himself, whereas every other player has be able to both take time do those things and have the ability to pull them off, in what way, on any terms, is that fair play? wether you wrote the script or not, the fact that you actually use it against people who dont have it is the issue. I cannot see any way possible that anybody can condone it. Logically the reason you make a script is to let the computer do something that you dont want to/cant do, whereas everybody else has to play by a certain set of limits and rules, you dont, and therefore in my eye's you've used something to your advantage, whish isnt ment to be included in the game.
 
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Davidskiwan said:
You have the game... and you have players, they can play the game whatever, but then one player who adds a script to his copy of the game, to make something easier for him to do, or so its automated so he doesnt have to do whatever he's scripted for himself, whereas every other player has be able to both take time do those things and have the ability to pull them off, in what way, on any terms, is that fair play? wether you wrote the script or not, the fact that you actually use it against people who dont have it is the issue. I cannot see any way possible that anybody can condone it. Logically the reason you make a script is to let the computer do something that you dont want to/cant do, whereas everybody else has to play by a certain set of limits and rules, you dont, and therefore in my eye's you've used something to your advantage, whish isnt ment to be included in the game.
My point exactly. Yet theres no real way to stop it that I'm aware of. Thus my suggesting just accepting them and building them into the game or making them easily available. Then since they are public you can find out which scripts are too effective and find ways to limit it...such as the 60 button script someone mentioned.
 
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Devion said:
You again miss the point completely.
Can I use scripts, ondemand ingame?(No scripts installed)
No. Neither can u adjust ur controls. Change resolution, or anything for that matter. If they locked all these things, not many people would play the mod, since each person has his own taste for controls.

Are scripts part of the game?
In a way they are

Does it gives you (unfair) advantages?
No. If other people made scripts, there would be no advantage.

Does it overcome limits within the game?
No.(But does overcome human possibillities)

Scripts defer only at one point with cheats and that is that hack overcome limits of the game.(Wallhack).
Another point is that the script always give a small disadvantage, which, if the script is good, is barely noticeable.

And yes there was a reload hack(scripts) back in CS1.3 and there was even one for AWP 1.6(Not real reload, but something like fast switching twice, only ALOT faster)
Then it is the teams fault for not fixing it. If it was THAT big a deal for the team, they could've asked other programmers for a solution. If they did not fix the problem, it was because they didn't want to and thought it was fine for people to use that trick.

Also your being unbelievable hypocrite.
People should respect unwritten rules and you script to win?
1 unwritten rule, which usually is still written, is not using exploits. Many people do. Another unwritten rule would be not to lame. People do it anyway. I justify my scripts on this point: If people can play lame and use exploits to their own likings, why should I be a toy for them? Furthermore do not accuse me as being hypocrite.

You are saying: "I dont play to win", but you use scripts only for one purposes, being faster, stronger and basically winning.
I use the script to make the game more enjoyable for myself. 1 of those things of getting enjoyed is winning, but that's not the only 1. I also use the script to shut lamers up and there are more reasons. I don't feel obligated to tell u all of my reasons.

Because scripts arent like thumbs.

Every normal persons has thumbs, not scripts, it makes the battle unnaturally uneven(unlike skill).

What another game "allows" is not the concern of ESF, now is it?
He's making an example. In a way scripts are like thumbs if he so whishes to use that example. I also believe that I have never seen a person that fits the description "normal" in this game. Battles are fought on many different grounds. 1 puts all of his time and effort into finding cheap tricks and perfecting a lame style of play. The other just doesn't want to do that for a reason like he doesn't want to lower himself to the point of a lamer but doesn't want to get laughed at either and puts all of his efforts into coding a script that can beat the cheap tricks and lame style of play. What another game "allows" is the concern of ESF while it is running with the same capabilities of the other game, in this case: scripting.

Ravendust said:
I'm surprised nobodies mentioned the good old 60-arrows script. There's no way any human could get 60 arrows in adv melee naturally, in fact you'd be stretching with 20.
U know I actually tried to write a script in which u can fire that adv melee glitch in a split second. It didn't work. My conclusion is that it was a speedhack in combination with some really artistic writing. I have not been able to go past the boundaries of the time it takes to enter a green arrow, because it was limited by the design of the game. This clearly states that a cheat was involved in creating this hack and not just a script.

Jinks said:
Sephize...thats a lot of anger towards people that consider scripting wrong. When in fact it is wrong and it gives you an unfair advantage. If the Devs coded the swooping the way it was....problems are solved.
I haven't gotten angry yet and u people are not getting my point. I'm simply annoyed by the inability of people like u to accept the fact that whatever comment they can come up with, can be justified in another way. What u want is for everyone to not use scripts and accept that lamers will dominate the servers with cheap tricks while using all standard settings. Therefor ruining the fun of other players who do not want to use cheap tricks and play lame. I cannot live with that and I think the "eye for an eye" line is very suited here. Here I was believing that the game should be enjoyable for everyone, whereas you people want to limit the fun of the game in favour of the jerks in this game.

If the team doesn't fix big flaws, atleast flaws that I find big and unwanted to the extent that it makes the game unenjoyable for me, why shouldn't I try to fix it for myself?

As I see it: there will always be 2 groups. 1 group that believes the following: Every person the same controls, the same keyboard and whatnot, however they can play as lame and as cheap as they want and other people will just have to suck it up and take that arrogance. The other group wants this: Play the game and enjoy it WITHOUT any lame or cheap playing. They don't want arrogant bastards, but want champions or heroes. Someone they can look up to. Someone with a playingstyle that is just and right and be the best at it, like an offensive style. They want to play the game and become just as good as the other.

Unfortunatly that is impossible because theres the 1st group. So some will now suck it up, but NOT everybody.
 

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