Direct Punch/Kick - advanced melee replacement

[DaRkOwNs]

well, something similar has been posted before but i like the way im thinking of it. its a little fps/ping unfriendly, but we already have basic melee so it should be fine to go nuts with this advanced melee. i need to be exact with stuff like teleporting and stuff too, so this may get a little on the long side.

THE MELEE:
it works by pressing the LMB at the exact moment of contact, which can be tough to get used too. but the difference is that when you make contact you can press a direction to hit them in that direction.

LMB = throw, 2 seconds long in any direction
LMB + left(A) = a roundhouse punch/kick to the left, knocking them that way.
LMB + right(d) = a roundhouse punch or kick to the right.
LMB + forward(w) = a simple straight drive/kick, like with basic
LMB + back(s) = a quick throw, backwards
LMB + up(space) = uppercut/kick, flies up, obviously
LMB + down(ctrl) = axe kick/2 handed smash down

DETAILS:
each one of these hits are quick attacks. they are weak but fast. about half as much damage as basic melee, and a lower/faster knockback. but, you have more capacity to chain/combo your attacks. possibly doing more damage, if your good enough.

DRAWBACKS:
LMB hits are hard to time
if someone BLOCKS when you try, it auto-parries and your left unbalanced for a second (also useful for users with ping issues)
lower damage
easier to recover from if the opponent misses

ADVANTAGES:
fast paced
capable of doing more chains
which could possibly end up doing more damage
it would actually be CHALLENGING
uses next too no stamina or ki

TELEPORTING:
teleporting HAS to be exact. when you press a directional button, no matter which button you pressed .5 seconds before, it HAS to go in that direction or this idea is flawed. flawed because, currently if you were to hit left and then immediately try to teleport forward, youll go left instead.

obviously swooping wont work anymore after 1 or 2 chain hits.



Work in progress, of course, so feel free to suggest something.

 

[DJ-Ready]

this is more like an enhancement of simple melee but I like the general idea of it. Giving you more control over simple melee like hits is something I thought about a few times already over the last few years (damn ... years .. I feel old)

 

[Dokutayuu]

This beats my idea by a long shot! If anyone's played Dark Messiah, this idea kinda resembles the stance attacks and how they differ with direction. That's what made the melee interesting.

Shiyojin, perhaps the idea for your double button would be some sort of powerful, slow, stamina costly move. Like some sort of mega-basic melee attack.

 

[Tenzo]

I have to admit that i like the basic idea too!

 

[Eacos]

I like the sound of this... to make simple melee a bit more complex would probably have its ups and downs.. the ping issue would probably end up scratching this idea all together, BUT it would also provide an alternative to advanced melee while its being implemented... you know.. to kinda keeps fans entertained while the primary system is being worked on.
I think this featured should have a limited chain-like system, meaning if you're swooping and press LMB you'll perform a kick or punch but you'll also stop in midair. This would provide a need to time the attack as soon as youre in your enemy's proximity.
Imagine swooping and chaining attacks indefenitely while keeping a constant pace.. doesnt sound too balanced.

 

[Tenzo]

I wonder if all the melee ideas(the ones that were better) posted since now will be taken in consideration by the team.:]
Anyways,ontopic:I would have something to add to this....
Let's say that two players swoop into each other or press RMB for rush or something similar and after that something like a melee power struggle could start.
eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyfh_V-N8ao at 0:42 and 1:12 (exact timer) as an alternative for the head-on thing in esf1.2.3!

 

[Dokutayuu]

Imagine swooping and chaining attacks indefenitely while keeping a constant pace.. doesnt sound too balanced.

Then you run out of stamina, the other guy blocks and kicks you back .

 

[DaRkOwNs]

heh, all of you keep in mind that if there is too much to the suggestion, the team wont really consider it.

but there is one thing i forgot to mention.

when 2 people clash with the LMB melee you auto-engage into a quick punch-trading brawl. lasts a few seconds, then both players jump out of it. note, JUMP out of it. as in NOT BEING KNOCKBACKED. that always annoyed me.

as for LMB against RMB, what happens is that the one using LMB parries the RMB attack and they both go through eachother.

no damage for either animation sequence.

I like the sound of this... to make simple melee a bit more complex would probably have its ups and downs.. the ping issue would probably end up scratching this idea all together, BUT it would also provide an alternative to advanced melee while its being implemented... you know.. to kinda keeps fans entertained while the primary system is being worked on.
I think this featured should have a limited chain-like system, meaning if you're swooping and press LMB you'll perform a kick or punch but you'll also stop in midair. This would provide a need to time the attack as soon as youre in your enemy's proximity.
Imagine swooping and chaining attacks indefenitely while keeping a constant pace.. doesnt sound too balanced.

its better balanced than it sounds. because of the timing of the LMB attacks, its hard to chain WHILE using teleport to go towards them. its alot weaker than a basic melee hit, because basic melee is pretty much a charged up driver to the gut. advanced melee will basically be jabs. and dont forget, it gets harder to chain as you go on and of course your teleports take ki. nothing is technically indefinite in this game.

limits suck, btw. just give me an idea to be able to get OUT of the chain, rather than limit it. i was thinking you can hold block to lessen damage while they get a chain on you, in exchange for stamina. after all, you were hit. its your fault for getting hit so theres no reason to stop the chain.

as for ping, thats why basic melee will stay. as thats an equal opportune system thats friendly with ping. pretty balanced in either way that you play.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

alright.

rush sounds somewhat like pre-punching. in which case, id have to disagree.

the LMB+RMB would be a good idea, if it werent starting to unbalance the game. BUT it gave me the idea of having a beam finish. instead of a charged hit, why not make it a beam blast? such as that flamethrower thing that trunks has.

whether mid combo or just sneaking up behind, its a flamethrower energy wave that drives the enemy back. its more like a Ki push, rather. its more or less a very VERY weak punch, that has a great knockback distance. it could be used as a great finisher. just press the 2 buttons while staying still and itll do a quick burst. does low damage

 

[KYnetiK]

Now things are cooking...I quite like this one, kinda amalgamate peoples desire of Basic melee and Budokai, a prototype would be fantastic fun even if it got scrapped....

Excellent ideas all around, i cant really disagree with much. I dont like the Rush idea, personally i think we could do without it. Also, the LMB+RMB Ki Push should be done whilst swooping, as the effect would be no different than a Basic melee hit (with less damage) and it would look appealing and mix it up a bit for those who'll probly stick to more traditional play.

Think about the time Cell came back after killing Goku, and fingerlasered Trunks. Rememember how Vegeta went mad and rushed cCell, throwing a blast as he was swooping?
Despite reducing the attack to a pulse, it would be quite a rush imo

 

[underline]

Wowww! Good ideia!
i dont have time to think in something to improve it..
but tomorrow i do.

 

[Tenzo]

This idea develops nicely! Simple but in the same time cool and a little complicated!

 

[DJ-Ready]

I see a problem, since we have the new "swoop key" you'll change direction when you press any of those keys during swoop.
So to make this work, you'd essentially have to give up control over the direction you swoop in to free up the wasd keys.
Like, swoop like you always do, a second before impact you hold LMB+A to knock him to the left. While pressing LMB in swoop, you will automatically only swoop in the direction you were swooping at when you pressed LMB

like, Player1 chainswoops to get close to Player2,
P1 swoops forward,
P1 presses LMB,
P1 continues to swoop forward (untill he lets go of LMB and has no directional key pressed; until he lets go of LMB while still pressing a directional key results in swooping into that direction, until he lets go of all keys just stops you, until he hits player2 which will also stop you),
P1 presses A while still holding down LMB,
on impact P2 gets knocked back to the left by P1 since he was holding LMB+A

 

[Dokutayuu]

I see a problem, since we have the new "swoop key" you'll change direction when you press any of those keys during swoop.
So to make this work, you'd essentially have to give up control over the direction you swoop in to free up the wasd keys.
Like, swoop like you always do, a second before impact you hold LMB+A to knock him to the left. While pressing LMB in swoop, you will automatically only swoop in the direction you were swooping at when you pressed LMB

like, Player1 chainswoops to get close to Player2,
P1 swoops forward,
P1 presses LMB,
P1 continues to swoop forward (untill he lets go of LMB and has no directional key pressed; until he lets go of LMB while still pressing a directional key results in swooping into that direction, until he lets go of all keys just stops you, until he hits player2 which will also stop you),
P1 presses A while still holding down LMB,
on impact P2 gets knocked back to the left by P1 since he was holding LMB+A

DJ, you've thwarted us again . However, the direction indicates which attack is performed, not necessarily the direction they are hit in. It could be overcome by which direction the mouse is moved in when you attack (e.g flick mouse upwards for up attack).

 

[Zeonix]

It could be overcome by which direction the mouse is moved in when you attack (e.g flick mouse upwards for up attack).

It already works like that, but if they were to make so that you didn't need ridiculously high sensitivity to hit them wherever you want 90% of the time, I'd be a happy camper (using the mouse, of course).

 

[DaRkOwNs]

I see a problem, since we have the new "swoop key" you'll change direction when you press any of those keys during swoop.
So to make this work, you'd essentially have to give up control over the direction you swoop in to free up the wasd keys.
Like, swoop like you always do, a second before impact you hold LMB+A to knock him to the left. While pressing LMB in swoop, you will automatically only swoop in the direction you were swooping at when you pressed LMB

like, Player1 chainswoops to get close to Player2,
P1 swoops forward,
P1 presses LMB,
P1 continues to swoop forward (untill he lets go of LMB and has no directional key pressed; until he lets go of LMB while still pressing a directional key results in swooping into that direction, until he lets go of all keys just stops you, until he hits player2 which will also stop you),
P1 presses A while still holding down LMB,
on impact P2 gets knocked back to the left by P1 since he was holding LMB+A

i wouldnt see it as much of a problem since you automatically stop when you land a hit. just make it so at a certain distance away from your opponent, it registers that you hit the LMB and a direction instead of focusing on the swoop/dash thing.

but that begs another question. why is swoop out of your control? arent you guys doing the "hold a button to swoop" thing?

Of course. i like the mouse suggestion too. if its possible.

 

[Zeonix]

i wouldnt see it as much of a problem since you automatically stop when you land a hit. just make it so at a certain distance away from your opponent, it registers that you hit the LMB and a direction instead of focusing on the swoop/dash thing.

but that begs another question. why is swoop out of your control? arent you guys doing the "hold a button to swoop" thing?

Of course. i like the mouse suggestion too. if its possible.

It isn't. Hold down the swoop key, hold down a direction, begin flying. Hit a, go left, hit d go right, etc etc. I still prefer double tapping but I can see most people switching over to the swoop key.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

it doesnt seem like there would be much of a problem then. unless im missing something.

let go of the swoop button, or just dont double tap and you can hit your opponent.

 

[Zeonix]

If you let go of a direction in 1.2, what happens? You stop. Same goes for 1.3. There is no inertia. If you suddenly stop in front of someone, they're going to hit you, since they're probably still swooping. If you're swooping using the swoop key, all of your attacks using the keyboard get wiped out because the swoop key is overriding them, making them useless. That's why I'd prefer it if your system were to be translated to the mouse, rather than the keyboard.

But again, it'd have to be done in such a way where anyone can do it. You shouldn't need 60 plus sens. I'm thinking there should be an imaginary line where, if you pass that line, your directional attacks are done. If the mouse doesnt pass that line, you knock them forwards.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

sounds like it should work like that.
LMB + flick in any direction = a smash kick/punch in that direction
(uppercut, 2 hand smash, right/left roundhouse)
RMB is a simple straight punch.

RMB+LMB is a ki burst

teleport has to be far more precise

thats what we have so far.

the threshold for the mouse will probably be the same as the hitboxes. flicking outside of one of the edges means a punch in that direction. kinda similar to the way 1.1's lockon box was at a distance. about mid-head to knees.