Crazy weather...

[Tassadar]

Uh, I don't.

I'm merely stating it was a good video to watch, more or less charts and graphs and **** that just shows you what could happen if things don't chagne soon, no reason to be like that. =/

My post wasn't directed towards you, just people in general. I've just noticed that the average joe on the street knows a lot more about global warming than they really need to, and everyone thinks their sources are spot on and indisputable. Tards that I talk to at work who couldn't name the current Secretary of State, or tell me the Celcius to Fahrenheit conversion seem to know everything there is to know about climate change. Just kind of gets on my nerves.

 

[J-Dude]

My post wasn't directed towards you, just people in general. I've just noticed that the average joe on the street knows a lot more about global warming than they really need to, and everyone thinks their sources are spot on and indisputable. Tards that I talk to at work who couldn't name the current Secretary of State, or tell me the Celcius to Fahrenheit conversion seem to know everything there is to know about climate change. Just kind of gets on my nerves.

Indeed. The diseases of ignorance and fear run rampant when the general population cannot muster the effort to properly research things like this to their proper conclusion. They all let themselves be fed rubbish by the general media who have the grossly absurd notion that global warming is a fact and not a theory as it is. They let environmentalists, who have by the way seemed to have gone from noble to nazi-fascist in a decade, bully all scientists trying to put forward the true facts which invalidate their theories, by using their multi-million dollar organizations to either silence them, or mark their honest scientific findings as nothing more than industry-paid lies, which is not just unfair, it's censorship of truth.

 

[Optimus Prime]

J-Dude, there is a pretty strong consensus within the scientific community that Global Warming is a reality. The sceptics now find themselves few and far between. Also be careful of your use of the word theory versus scientific theory, after all, gravitation is only a theory too.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

Oh PLEASE...not this crap again...it's not...global...warming...

Yes, the planet is gradually increasing in temperature, but that's because we're reaching the peak of a Solar Summer. Yeah, we have annual seasons, but in terms of the planet itself, there are much longer term seasons occuring. This is nothing new to planet Earth folks. We just haven't had the instruments to record the phenomenon yet. The seasons have nearly 500 year cycles. When we began taking temperature records we were in the Winter/Spring phase.

Give it 50 years and we'll all notice a global cooling trend emerge. Stop panicking already. Don't allow yourselves to be put in a perpetual state of irrational fear!

i wont argue whether global warming really exists

...

ok so maybe i will. just steering off from the temperature facts ill ask you this. do you think that creating large quantities of toxic, harmful, and corrosive gases WHILE cutting down millions of acres of forest and woodland would be good for the earth in anyway possible?

besides these problems weve used historic evidence (from ice core samples) that prove that the earth is indeed being thrown off the balance set in earlier timelines. at this point you can only look at facts, and facts say something is indeed wrong with the earth.

 

[J-Dude]

@Optimus Prime: What did I just say about the media again? People only believe there is a unanimous agreement because those who agree are the only ones reported on! The only way to get the TRUE research is to search for these person's work.

@DarkOwns: Who said I was for pollution? That statement in itself was rather ignorant. I for one am for clean measures like solar energy and the hydrogen car (we'll have to make due with ethanol for the time being, but that's still a lot cleaner than gas). I mean, can one be against the death penalty, and not still favor punishing criminals?

And besides, before you begin statin the evils of mankind, do realize that nearly any process that keeps our civilization alive produces some form of pullutant waste. If we completely withdrew we would die.

And what's this about ice-core samples? What do they prove? Less Co2 300 years ago? Old news. Yes, there's a lot more Co2 in the air, but if anything it's actually benefitting the planet. For example, in the last 30 years, the forests surrounding the Sahara have been slowly taking back land that was once desert. Why? Because more Co2 means more efficient photosynthess in plants. Plants LIKE it, and it's good for them. There are changes, true, but stop toting around your "the end is near" sign, we're far from any real danger.

 

[Optimus Prime]

@Optimus Prime: What did I just say about the media again? People only believe there is a unanimous agreement because those who agree are the only ones reported on! The only way to get the TRUE research is to search for these person's work.

Wow J-Dude, you have shown me the light. Now I finally understand why the media doesn't report on people who say that the Holocaust didn't happen!

On the other hand, the IPCC just released a report on climate change, and I'll take the word of 2500+ scientific expert reviewers, 850+ Contributing authors, and 450+ lead authors from over 130 countries, contributing for the last 6 years, over your conspiracy theories.

Be careful throwing around words like unanimous. I never said unanimity, I said consensus, they don't mean the same thing.

 

[frsrblch]

Yes, the planet is gradually increasing in temperature, but that's because we're reaching the peak of a Solar Summer. Yeah, we have annual seasons, but in terms of the planet itself, there are much longer term seasons occuring. This is nothing new to planet Earth folks. We just haven't had the instruments to record the phenomenon yet. The seasons have nearly 500 year cycles. When we began taking temperature records we were in the Winter/Spring phase.

500 year cycles. Yes, that explains why we have ice ages... sure.

These things are caused by periodic changes in the Earth's orbit and axis orientation. They can be accurately graphed based on the movement of our planet. According to this motion, right now the world should slowly be cooling off toward another ice age. Instead, we've set records for high temperatures nine years of the last ten.

When you have the majority of the scientific community saying that climate change is real, and organizations sponsored by big oil trying to buy people off so they won't publish their results (ah, here it is. think what you will of it.) (some of the same people that were working for the tobacco companies trying to tell us cigarettes are healthy are in on this too)... well it doesn't take a whole lot of thought to figure out.

Not that all anything we do in the west matters at all. Once China and India get going full steam, we're ****ed. Especially those of you in low lying areas (Florida and NYC come to mind), unless you happen to like being submerged.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

@DarkOwns: Who said I was for pollution? That statement in itself was rather ignorant. I for one am for clean measures like solar energy and the hydrogen car (we'll have to make due with ethanol for the time being, but that's still a lot cleaner than gas). I mean, can one be against the death penalty, and not still favor punishing criminals?

And besides, before you begin statin the evils of mankind, do realize that nearly any process that keeps our civilization alive produces some form of pullutant waste. If we completely withdrew we would die

first of all, chill out. i wasnt accusing you of anything i was simply making my argument. keep it to an intelligent discussion or this thread will get closed as it has millions of times before.

second, yes we do create pollutant waste on everything we do and the planet could probably cope with it if we werent destroying the balancing factor. itll all go back to the forests and woodlands, as long as trees are hacked down our oxygen supply will run lower and lower.

now that i have gotten to that do you know what ozone is made of?

Ozone (O3) is a triatomic molecule, consisting of three oxygen atoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

ozone constantly replenishes itself and the corrosive gases that are given off by factories and cars eat it away faster. so as this goes on we are not only eating away at the ozone faster we are also limiting the ammount of replenishing oxygen that it can form with.

just so you know i have not accused you of anything in this.

 

[J-Dude]

"Conspiracy Theory"? Face it! Anybody in today's society who speaks of the Theory of Global Warming for what it really is ignored, cast aside as either an indusrial tool, an idiot or are simply bullied into silence by the massive momentum generated by this by-product of abject fear! The responses I've gotten on this issue are prime examples! If anyone ever came up with evidence which effectively disproved the dangers of global warming (and they have, many many times) nobody would want to hear it! It's a monster that cannot be stopped because of the hippyist movement of environmentalists who have infernally convinced half the free world that human beings, especially those who live honest comfortable lives, are evil self-destructive animals who exist only to destroy the so-called balance of nature! It's a crock, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool!

Let me tell you all some history. It was the year 1989, a year like any other, except for a few things:

First, this was the year the Red Threat finally vanished. The Fall of the Berlin Wall marked the end of the Cold War, a war which had lasted half a clear century and acclimated the generations who had lived in this period into a State of Fear. Communism, nukes and the Soviet Union kept people reasonably frightened, and most were used to it, much like a prisoner sentenced to life who's gotten far too used to living behind bars.
Much like the poor old man in "Shawshank Redemption", the people of the world were suddenly released from fear into a sudden realm of peace. But people were too used to living in fear, and now there was a vacuum of fear. Nature...abhors a vacuum. Something had to fill it.

And so came later that year, a blistering heatwave, in which James Hansen proposed the theory of Global Warming. The subconcious urge to fear a global threat engaged the populace, and thus it has been peddled out ever since.

I don't have enough time to give you all the details, but here's a little video series I hapenned upon to ease your troubled minds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT5Ws60TAOE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coOQIn3Izog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH4ef37Izyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTjXTCNbQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUiLGYjyE88

Now after watchin those, and REALLY watching them, not sneering and ignoring the writing on the wall, tell me you still think we're doomed.

As you heard from those videos, the IPCC report is selective in favor of the theory of Global Warming and those who assemble it DO ignore those who disagree with them!!!

 

[DaRkOwNs]

youd have to be pretty ignorant to actually think that smoke that comes out of a factory in mass quantity wouldnt harm the environment in some way

the problem with this "theory" stuff is that the global warming "theory" offers solid scientific proof that its really going on

this is actually an experiment ive done before in science class, i suggest you go out and try this. you probably could at school.

take a glass case and bombard it with light. then record the temperature after an hour. fill the glass case up with co2 and bombard it with light, record the temperature again. you may be surprised.

another thing about this theory crap is what the hell good would it do to make up an entire theory that can only cost the government and every business in the world millions of dollars? besides this why is it a bad thing to believe that what we do destroys the earth? it might not but what if it does? is it such a horrible idea to think about cleaning our **** up? i say at the very least believe in global warming so we will do something about the pollution and crap going on in the world.

there, i hope that wasnt too heart-felt

 

[Optimus Prime]

In July 2004, one year before Hurricane Katrina, a computer simulated 'Hurricane Pam' showed that even a category 3 hurricane would drown New Orleans. Many sceptics simply scoffed at the simulation. August 2005, Katrina happened, while many scientists could only shake their heads, with an unfortunate "I told you so." Moral of the story? There are always going to be sceptics.

Don't give me this post Cold-War fear crap. What came out of the Cold War was imminent fear of nuclear war on a global scale. Global Warming is something that isn't going to effect most of us in our own lifetime. To even compare the two is apples and oranges.

Oh, and Friends of Science? They've been shown to have ties to Big Oil and electrical companies, so don't think they're exactly bias and agenda free.

In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them.

In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.

 

[J-Dude]

Huh. You're not even going to watch those vids ar you? And you have the gall to call me ignorant.

The problem isn't getting scientists to believe, so your Katrina crap is already void. The point is that funds are being wasted on insane measures like the Kyoto Protocol when they can be put to real theats like HIV in Africa. Few environmental organizations actually exist to solve problems, becase once a problem is solved, your funding ends. Hundreds of them exist simply to preserve the status quo, undermining the goals they once stood for!

Let us proceed onward into greener technology, yes! Let us slowly and efficiently improve upon our was and means to better our impact upon the Earth! But if we begin taking hasty inhibiting measures, we'll begin to destroy our civilizations ability to advance! Some measures may even REDUCE our quality of living! Listen to sense man!

 

[Optimus Prime]

Huh. You're not even going to watch those vids ar you? And you have the gall to call me ignorant.

Actually, I watched those videos when someone posted them on the Inconvenient Truth message board on IMDB.

Ethanol powered vehicles and energy saving light bulbs are not going to reduce our quality of life.

 

[J-Dude]

Actually, I watched those videos when someone posted them on the Inconvenient Truth message board on IMDB.

Ethanol powered vehicles and energy saving light bulbs are not going to reduce our quality of life.

WTH? When did I say that they would? Did I not mention in an earlier post that I was for ethanol cars and energy efficient appliances? I'm speaking of taking mass-measures that hinder our economy and our people's way of life.

 

[DaRkOwNs]

we dont need to take mass measures and i never said we did

all we need to do is replant what we cut down, and use cleaner and efficient energy methods. thats not nearly enough to even slightly hinder our economic growth.

The problem isn't getting scientists to believe, so your Katrina crap is already void. The point is that funds are being wasted on insane measures like the Kyoto Protocol when they can be put to real theats like HIV in Africa. Few environmental organizations actually exist to solve problems, becase once a problem is solved, your funding ends. Hundreds of them exist simply to preserve the status quo, undermining the goals they once stood for!

thats really hard to believe, whoever funds these things expects results. and if they dont get satisfactory results they cut funding. as i said before global warming will only cost the government money which is one of the main reasons most people can believe the politicians on this matter.

btw, i really havent the time to watch the episodes youve posted. but ill try to get to them tomorrow. although i really doubt they will change my perspective in any way.

 

[J-Dude]

we dont need to take mass measures and i never said we did

all we need to do is replant what we cut down, and use cleaner and efficient energy methods. thats not nearly enough to even slightly hinder our economic growth.

Agreed =) We are simpatico ^_^

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

All I know, J-Dude, is there was a warning for hurricane force winds here in Boston. My car was nearly blown off the road by wind all week.

In the same week school was cancelled in the normally arid midwest because after being battered by irregular snowfall they suffered a potentially dangerous windchill.

Here in Boston it snowed once this year and it was less then an inch. The snowfall quickly turned to rain, which froze on the ground, creating all manner of unnatural ice sheets. Then, the sun shined so brightly that the ice sheets were blinding.

I understand about global warming and cooling cycles but the fact is the world is not universally doing either. The weather patterns are completely F'ed up, in all directions, in all climates, in all situations. Anyone who cannot see this is just ignorant.

Regardless...even if it WERE true that we are not in danger...would it not be better to err on the side of caution rather than recklessly drive our 12mpg SUVs to the McDonald's at the corner every day and continue to exacerbate the problem?

Either way, J-Dude's still totally bat**** on those conspiracy theories.

 

[clen]

Think of it this way, if we're wrong we spend billions of dollars on cleaning up the country and it doesn't change anything. Or we don't change our ways and the world slowly destroys billions of homes and possibly killing millions.

 

[J-Dude]

Look, my main example of hasty action is the Kyoto Protocol. The program would cost billions if not trillions of dollars from the majority of the planet to the ends of (projectively) cooling the overall planet by THREE-HUNDREDTHS (as in 0.03) OF A DEGREE...IN A HUNDRED YEARS...

Okay, I get signing emissions treaties and such, but by God, if there was ever a hasty under-thought idea, it was Kyoto.

The main thing I really take issue with is that a lot of environmentalists become something just short of extremist. The point is, their intentions are good, but the majority just don't know what they're talking about. That's a disastrous recipe folks. Good intentions mean nothing if the good-deed-do'er doesn't know a temperature graph from his *******, which as Tassadar pointed out, is far too often the case. My concern is those people who may take the situation to terrorist extents in order to "save the planet".

 

[DaRkOwNs]

no one cares about the temperature, and no one ever has. the only thing people care about is that some serious **** will happen if whats going on isnt changed.