Consecutive Hits Streak

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Hi,
I came up with this idea a while ago that I would like to share. Originally this came to me from being disappointed by how short the fights are in all the DBZ games because of their HP bars. My idea is to ditch the health bars alltogether and have a treshold of consecutive hit streak which you need to land without getting hit in order to win a fight. So let's say on Goku you have to land 1000 hits without being hit yourself in order to win. Other, less powerful characters might need less consecutive hits to win against. I am fully aware this might not work in the ESF environment, however I just wanted to spread this idea around as staying locked up in my head ain't doing much :p. Maybe one day some Bandai Namco dude will get to read this lol.

This would also work well from the series point of view. Let's say you get hit 900 times as Goku (so you're close to dying) and all your clothes are torn up and you look pretty roughed up, but then you manage to hit the other person, breaing their streak. Furthermore you proceed to win the fight over the other person by landing the necessary streak for their treshold. That would be similar to the anime as well as giving the fights an immense sense of epicness and struggle.

Feedback is welcome as I would really like to get this out there and hopefully one day see a DBZ game implement this.
 
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So if you hit goku 999 times and then he hits you, does that "reset" the hit system so you have to hit him 999 times again ?
 
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What Nedgi said.

The system is really REALLY prone to lucky shots. Maybe it would be better as a tug fo war mechanic. Basically have one bar that starts half filled with green and half with read.

Each hit you deal moves it in ne direction, while each hit you get moves it in the other. The ratio should be something like 3 hits dealt = 1 hit taken. Ofcourse this should varry based on the strength of the characters (VIA multipliesrs ranged 0.70 to 1.30), but having it like this does allow you do dominate someone relatively fast, while prolonging even fights.

So this would take skill and power in to account, while not extending fights past the point of tedious.

Just my 5 minutes of thinking on the idea.
 
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it's a great idea ... but here's another idea


What if for each consecutive hit (without getting hit by the other person), you do more and more damage? seems a bit unrealistic to me for an entire attack counter to be reset because of 1 punch. You could have a ridiculously high healthpool .... if u comppletely dominate someone, you can get through that high HP really fast ... otherwise if there is a lot of back and forth, that hp can b going down gradually/slowly. Could do it so that ever consecutive hit doubles the attack, or triples it (depending on how quickly u can land the next hit) it would be kind of like a critical Hit Idea.


let me know what u think of this

TBH critical hit idea would b really cool. Like if u hit someone 3 times in a matter of a few seconds, u do exponential damage.
 
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That would only spawn counter orientated gameplay, where both just try to counter with a multi hit combo, but dont really attack, since in fighting games reacting is a lot of times easier than acting.
 
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That would only spawn counter orientated gameplay, where both just try to counter with a multi hit combo, but dont really attack, since in fighting games reacting is a lot of times easier than acting.
right, but u still get bonus damage for consecutive hits as long as u dont get hit in between. (having to block an attack counts as getting hit) and you do critical hits if u hit someone relatively fast in a sequence.


Just an idea.
 
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it's a great idea ... but here's another idea


What if for each consecutive hit (without getting hit by the other person), you do more and more damage? seems a bit unrealistic to me for an entire attack counter to be reset because of 1 punch. You could have a ridiculously high healthpool .... if u comppletely dominate someone, you can get through that high HP really fast ... otherwise if there is a lot of back and forth, that hp can b going down gradually/slowly. Could do it so that ever consecutive hit doubles the attack, or triples it (depending on how quickly u can land the next hit) it would be kind of like a critical Hit Idea.


let me know what u think of this

TBH critical hit idea would b really cool. Like if u hit someone 3 times in a matter of a few seconds, u do exponential damage.
To be honest in my ideal suggestion I am trying to do away with the HP bars for good. Doing so can bring forth a situation where even someone beaten up really good can still come back and win the fight without the other person getting some lucky last shot in. I really like the feedback from Grega regarding the struggle/tug of war system. I think it would be going in the right direction towards improving my suggestion. Might be worth thinking about implementing this sort of game mode into ESF :).

Depending on the characters fighting, the tug of war bar would have two thresholds merged together. So say Goku would be green with 400 hit threshold and Krilling would be red with a 200 hit threshold. The tug of war bar would have 600 hit points in total. So as Krillin hits Goku, Krillin's Red side of the bar would increase, in a way making his hit points bigger, while cutting into Goku's. Landing consecutive hits or combos would increase the speed at which the tug of war bar is increasing in the dominating player's favour. I think this captures the struggle that we are meant to have and feel in DBZ fights really well! From an ESF viewpoint this could also work, as a person would be challenged continously to kill the dominating player who gets to keep his current hit points in the struggle bar if he doesn't die. When a player dies, he respawns with the default hit points allocated to him and the "struggle bar" capacity would increase. Eventually, if someone is really good, he could become a sort of a Broly on a map and have everyone after him, providing a natural progression into the game :). Less respawning, more fun, more accurate to the series. Win win!

Perhaps, an easier way of implementing something similar would be to have replenishable health. That way, a player can run and hide tactically until he has regained his strength. Or a person that has run out of stamina/energy even though he was dominating, might be forced to run away and replenish those two, meanwhile, the person who was being dominated is regaining some of his health. In fact I think some fighting games have implementing something similar to this (further diluting my original suggestion though...) where about 1/3 of the damage that was dealt to a player in a combo would be quickly replenishable as long as he doesn't get hit within a certain time frame again. Alternatively, lifesteal per hit might also be something to think about to drag the fights out.

PS: Grega, do you have the system in ESF where the person hitting someone is gaining PL, but also the person being hit? Gaining PL at different, appropriate rates of course.
 
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If you are low against an enemy then he probably deserves that "lucky hit" to kill you since he had all the work to drain you from your hp in the first place ^^
You have to put yourself in the situation of the enemy as well, if you hit me 999 times and i just suddenly get a lucky shot and start ramming through the bar or just hide myself or run away until i regen my own hp meaning all the work you put into killing me goes out the window , how bad would you feel ?
 
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If you are low against an enemy then he probably deserves that "lucky hit" to kill you since he had all the work to drain you from your hp in the first place ^^
You have to put yourself in the situation of the enemy as well, if you hit me 999 times and i just suddenly get a lucky shot and start ramming through the bar or just hide myself or run away until i regen my own hp meaning all the work you put into killing me goes out the window , how bad would you feel ?
I wouldn't feel bad at all! I'd feel frustrated of course. Even probably make me shout stuff outloud like "Come on out and face me your coward!" which is exactly the kind of immersion game developers dream off! He worked hard to get you there sure, but you would have to work even harder to come back and if you manage to do it your opponent has no choice but to have the utmost respect for you! That would be so true to the series haha. Imagine how frustrated Vegeta must of felt so many times! Like coming so close to killing Goku in the beginning for example, only for him to keep coming back and clawing away at him bit by bit until he perservered! Imagine if the tables turn as well. You are the chased one, dominated. Then you turn the tables and win! How good would you feel?! This would also make people have personal vendettas with you, and there's nothing better than a nemesis fight, we all know that haha!

I'd like to add that I often feel good when I get my ass kicked as long as I know I gave it my all and I got beaten/dominated fare and square. I feel like Goku, I get excited when I got challenging obstacles to face. This applies to games and all sorts. I get really mad, frustrated and torn up when I make a mistake that leads towards my downfall. But that only serves to teach me not to make mistakes any more, or at least the same ones and eventually achieve a mastery of what I am being competitive at.
 
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I understand it from a series standpoint sure, but from a game prespective its unbalanced in most ways, i could just keep running and regenerating and you would never kill me ,hell i could even spam a beam or two and just keep regenerating that hp you took so long to drain from me and at the same time trying to drain yours, thus encouraging "hit and run" type of gameplay, but with the current hp system, if you are low and the enemy is not you dont want to just run away waitting to be destroyed eventually, you want to kick his ass fast so he gets as low as you or even more.
As for the bar thingy, its actually harder to balance, imagine the bar was filled 90% in my side and 10% in yours, now it would be actually harder for you to comeback because you have 90% of "beating" before you can become close to kill me, and if THEN i make another comeback the bar would go up and down a long time before the winner of the bar struggle is declared, this would later become frustrating as hell.
With hp, if you are low and want to comeback, you have to drain the enemyยดs hp but you have to have in consideration how low you are as well, and both of you can be low on hp and neither of you has to worry about getting that damn bar up to their side all over again ^^
In conclusion, with the hp system, fights are faster, less frustrating and fair for everyone, but i can probably see the bar idea being implemented in some kind of game mode, who knows :b
 
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I understand it from a series standpoint sure, but from a game prespective its unbalanced in most ways, i could just keep running and regenerating and you would never kill me ,hell i could even spam a beam or two and just keep regenerating that hp you took so long to drain from me and at the same time trying to drain yours, thus encouraging "hit and run" type of gameplay, but with the current hp system, if you are low and the enemy is not you dont want to just run away waitting to be destroyed eventually, you want to kick his ass fast so he gets as low as you or even more.
As for the bar thingy, its actually harder to balance, imagine the bar was filled 90% in my side and 10% in yours, now it would be actually harder for you to comeback because you have 90% of "beating" before you can become close to kill me, and if THEN i make another comeback the bar would go up and down a long time before the winner of the bar struggle is declared, this would later become frustrating as hell.
With hp, if you are low and want to comeback, you have to drain the enemyยดs hp but you have to have in consideration how low you are as well, and both of you can be low on hp and neither of you has to worry about getting that damn bar up there ^^
In conclusion, with the hp system, fights are faster, less frustrating and fair for everyone, but i can probably see the bar idea being implemented in some kind of game mode, who knows :b
I find the opposite to be true. In ESF, if low on HP my desire to fight goes down and more or less await to be killed so I can be respawned with full health. Whereas if the other guy owns 90% of the bar, and you are on 10%, you are more inclined to get him down so you can get up. This type of back and forth is a hella lot more fun that to keep fragging (kill/be killed) and respawning continously with no sense of progression. It's kinda like playing Counter-Strike so it doesn't really have any gameplay depth at all. If a game mode based on this suggestion was implemented, I reckon it could become a core game-mode for the people who prefer more similar fights to that of the show, which I am sure there is a greater demand for, than simple Counter-Strike fragging gameplay. This might also appease the guys wanting to have Power Levels carry over from matches because what they really want is that sense of progression and/or striving towards something more palpable than a K/D ratio or an ambigous "skill level".
 
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If your desire to fight goes down with hp you simply have to get better to avoid going low on hp and fight back, but i guess its a matter of preference and, although the bar system creates a more immersive experience, it changes the playstyle a lot and personally i dont think its a fair system overall but i can see it being fun for a lot of players, eitherway it can most likely be implemented on a server or something as it doesnt seem that hard to do but then again im not experienced with those kinds of things xp.
 
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If your desire to fight goes down with hp you simply have to get better to avoid going low on hp and fight back, but i guess its a matter of preference and, although the bar system creates a more immersive experience, it changes the playstyle a lot and personally i dont think its a fair system overall but i can see it being fun for a lot of players, eitherway it can most likely be implemented on a server or something as it doesnt seem that hard to do but then again im not experienced with those kinds of things xp.
It's not that my desire goes down with HP, it's just that past a certain low point, like maybe >20%, I know I am on the brink of death and about to die but will respawn with full health therefore standing a better chance at getting back at him more easily and with less pressure. That also makes me somewhat less scared of dying, because there's no outstanding consequence of it. Arguably, that also drives down the desire to fight from the dominant person perspective, because winning against someone also has no outstanding consequence. Whereas implementing what we are discussing here would make the losing person really try to prevent the dominant person from gaining too many hit points on the struggle bar, while making the dominant person strive to gain more and more hit points on the struggle bar to feel even more powerful through the illusion of longer-lasting health.
 
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Or you could try to get the enemy lower before you die, so if you are 20% and the enemy 100% you can try to get him a bit lower at 75% for example so when you respawn you will be at an advantage because you are 100% and he is 75%.
 
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That goes without saying of course. Problem is, then when you are 100% and him at 75%, you will end up with maybe 50% and him dead on a good day. Which means he will then respawn with 100% and you at 50%. Then what? Rinse and repeat aimlessly :/.
 
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Its not that simple trust me xD
 
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the problem with ur "struggle/tug of war system" is that it wont work in a multiplayer aspect with free range. You ahve multiple ppl fighting all fights. are you going to have 3 tug of wars going on at the same time? and there is the matter of what happens with ur tug of war balance if u havent seen the person for a long time


you're idea to replace HP bars would work perfectly in a Duel situation ... but being in a multiplayer fight it wont work. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing it implemented in a Duel setting (where u and the person are locked in a duel and no one else can hurt you) it would work really great for that.

And also when it comes to teh gameplay and hit and run tactics, i honestly dont see why having more strategies to use is a bad idea .... hitting and running are REAL tactics and shouldn't be dismissed or avoided. But i also don't see a reason why your HP should just be able to regen either (unless you are Cell or Buu)

my two cents.
 
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The tug of war idea was pretty much a fighter based mechanic. Translated in to ESF FFA format, youd get a HP bar that heals you slowly with each X amount of damage you deal. Foe example every 30 damage you deal you get healed by 10. Though taking the way beams work in ESF it would have to be set for each beam specifically. Or lock the beam danage potential.

But as the thread stated, this idea is not aimed at ESF. Its a general idea discussion thread. Also ESf is sticking to the standard health bar format.
 
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The tug of war idea was pretty much a fighter based mechanic. Translated in to ESF FFA format, youd get a HP bar that heals you slowly with each X amount of damage you deal. Foe example every 30 damage you deal you get healed by 10. Though taking the way beams work in ESF it would have to be set for each beam specifically. Or lock the beam danage potential.

But as the thread stated, this idea is not aimed at ESF. Its a general idea discussion thread. Also ESf is sticking to the standard health bar format.
Somewhat diverging from the topic but...
Are there going to be any other game modes apart from FFA in ESF:Final ? And if so, what are they? And what is being considered?
 
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Well as I thought about this critical hit idea, another one came up in my mind. It would be something like that: If you punsh him from the back(basic melee) then it does more damage then from the front or smtng like that.That would make it also more interesting maybe to try to teleport at the back of your opponent and hit him to get a critical hit....Or another idea would be the speed....If u are just going slowly to you enemy and hit him, it won't deal as much damage as it would if u are doing 2x w (I can't remember how it's called I mean that fast flying). I had this in my mind, thx for reading (if u did).
 

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