BUU!

nge

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The speed thing is wrong for Buu, also- He's faster than Cell, and Cell moves at a speed of 220. His starting PL is 1,125,000 compared to Goku's 750,000 as well.

Minor stuff like that aside, I'm glad you captured my point. We even go to look at attacks, and notice he is not lacking there, either. The only charecter that would stand a VERY slim chance in an "open arsenal" fight would be cell, due to his fast movement speed combined with the SBC. Krillin might be slower than Goku, and with less HP/Starting powerlevel, but the HP difference and PL difference are not so great that they negate any chance Krillin has. Furthermore, anyone choosing Krillin know's they're going in with a handicap against most other players using other charecters. This is good, and his transformation is your reward for your preserverence.

Each charecter is uniquely balanced, with the exception of Buu, who's "uniqueness" lies in the fact that he's simply better; I'll elaborate on this point in the following charecter analysis.

Goku- Great all around charecter, with arguably the most spamable ability after trans. A diverse selection of attacks at his arsenal, respecable starting PL, Good health and speed. Lacks "unlockable" attacks after transing, and loses the ability to throw the strongest ball attack in the game. Not really bad at anything, and with great killing potential. Trans comes at a fairly quick time, but with "warning flags (The lightning.)" Quite a powerhouse overall.

Vegeta- A slightly longer than normal trans time and an average starting PL. Good speed, good health, and starts with what is quite possibly the most underrated attack in the game, the Gallit Gun. He is the only untransed charecter with a good speed that has a "heavy" beam attack that is more easily used in mid-battle. After trans, he has pure offencive power on his side, gaining the strongest beam attack in the game along with the very useful big bang attack. His only true weakness is within his severely hindered Ki-blast, which could be fixed by removing the charge time on the renzoku. Can untrans, should the need to gain PL quickly arise in a largely populated server.

Cell- a great charecter that requires a degree of finesse and skill to use properly. A high starting PL and good speed/health along with a great diversity of moves at his arsenal. Most of his beam attacks leave him vunerable, however- Freiza disk and KHH have high ki cost, leaving a low amount of mobility should a misfire occour. The SBC is a great attack as well, usful in distracting or killing a would be melee assult. His transformation is when things get really tricky, however- a comparitively late trans, meaning the average other charecter of equal skill will have a period in which they'll probably pummel you into the dirt. After trans, Cell becomes a "wear and tear" fighter, not having nearly enough PL to compete with the average transed sayin, or the big beam attacks to deal with the high-powered beams/ball attacks coming his way. He has a good health value, however, and a slightly higher than average speed, requireing great player movement skill to manuver in such a manner that his slightly larger than normal HP pads him until he is able to get into a more favorable position to attack, and to help get into a situation more useful for him. He keeps his trans after death, unlike most of the charecters, which is both good and bad- good how he won't have to worry about trans damage, but bad in how he can no longer gain a high PL as quickly as the ones that do.

Trunks- a slow charecter that specalizes in melee. Sound a little strange? It isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Burning attack has almost the same charge time as a generic beam, and while the blast radius is slightly smaller, it does more damage and has a blinding principal. Unintentional or not, Trunks lack of basic melee cooldown really helps offset his speed handicap- get into range, and you'll make them pay for that. Good starting health and average starting PL make him a decent force to start against, and he WILL be the first transing in most cases, needing to earn a mere 300k before he is able to. After transing, he is quite slow compared to most other transformations, but the fact that he gains it so early, and keeps his melee advantage. He can untrans as neccesary, and while weaker than most big attacks, the finishing buster is also relitivly low on ki-cost, and while slow to charge, the fact that you're going to have a huge PL compared to the average player early on will definately increase your blast radius. He's also got the "sword in adv. melee" feature. I've never used it, but hey, he's got it.

Gohan- Another slow charecter, has advantages untransed as owning the shield attack and masenko, along with the knowlage you're going to trans very soon. Low health and low starting PL are tough to combat with considering his low speed, but with a fast charging special attack like masenko, you've got an ace up your sleeve should the situation call for it. Used correctly, the shield can defer melee and non-connected ki attacks quite well. Gaining the KHH and a VAST speed increase after trans, he becomes quite a force. You'll be nukeing anywhere you point that thing until others trans, and the masenko even becomes lethal at that point. Low health and slightly weak while untransed keep him in check, and once others trans they're more than back in the game to fighting him. He's also small, making somewhat harder to hit.

Piccolo- an oddball charecter with a few aces up his sleeve. Owning the two fastest charging connected and non-connected special beams offers quite an advantage, and a decent HP is all good to start with. Starting PL is slightly below average, but not the worst it could be. Scattershot is IMMENSLY powerful when not blowing up in your face, eye lasers are useful for keeping the hurt on after advanced melee breaks, especially after a red hit, and also after getting a double hit in basic. His trans comes early, but seems somewhat underpowered compared to the others- your key to success lies with your ability to use his strange attacks to keep your opponent on their toes. Comes with the standard untrans advantages/disadvantages, but I feel he's a bit too slow after trans considering his lower than useful PL at that point. Somewhat underpowered.

Freiza- A charecter that boasts a high starting PL, high starting HP, and low speed make him a tank. You've GOT to keep pressure on Freiza in order to beat him, and you'll be fighting a war of attrition due to his ability to shrug off many of your attacks with his high health. He'll also be able to defer your melee if you arn't careful with a disc attack, which is controlable at that, making it even more risky to engage in melee at that point. The key to victory with him lies within his finger laser- smart use with it will not allow your opponent to go on the defensive without recieving severe damage. Possesing the only mass damage hitscan weapon in the game is a major advantage, but without the speed to use it spammingly makes it a tricky skill to master. It also requires precision aiming, as opposed to fireing in your opponents general direction. Trans comes at a reasonable time, and it is a force to reckon with. Slightly slower than most, but not painfully so. The PL of him after trans isn't amazing, but the double ki-bar with fingerlasers is devistating. You also gain the Death Ball, the strongest ki costing ball attack for your powerlevel, an amazingly useful ability. Also on the list of advantages, you have a LOW perfect trans powerlevel. You'll be able to trans/untrans at your leisure in no time, and you'll take the benifits of being able to untrans along with the benifits of being bound to your new trans, with really none of the disadvantages, in no time.

Krillin- A jack of all trades that can't really beat anyone at their own game. Low speed, low health, and a low PL make him unappealing at first, but his wide array of attacks keep him a contender. You've got a disk attack, though slightly worse than the others who have a disk, a high powered beam attack, though lacking the PL and speed to use it as effectively as the other charecters, and a long charge attack, which isn't nearly as powerful as other charecters, but covers the whole map with light damage, as well as boosts his PL rapidly on a server with even 4 or more people. He's a small target, making him somewhat harder to hit. He'll be smashed once others start transing, but preserverence will allow you to trans- at that point, revenge will be yours to wreck upon everyone who picked on your poor, bald little head. Boasting great health, amazing speed, and a power you DEFINATELY earned, you'll be killing everything and taking names the whole time. It's basically a legalized god mode.

And now, Buu.

Bigger, better, faster, stronger. A starting PL that simply blows the others out've the water, a big beam that charges fairly quickly and annihilates everything in its wake, a starting speed that is able to compete with TRANSED Trunks and Piccolo, health that beats everyone else out've the water (and almost anyone else even when transed), the ability to heal should you find a hidey hole and need to heal, a laser which does considerably more than 2 hp/second depending on your PL (that's not as fast as you'd think, I know what some of you are trying to say, but it would take almost a min. to kill the average charecter if that were true,) and the ability to either gain full health, a major PL increase, or 40 Hp and a large PL increase should someone die from that hitscan attack, the second fastest trans along with the most health at that point, all the benifits of not being able to untrans, and to top it all off, the longest run on sentence I have ever typed in my life describing him. Furthermore, his trans really isn't all that "late" as you'll be beating the stuffing out of everyone you fight up to that point. They'll probably trans about 100-500k before you can, and you can still hold your own at that point. He's basically, "Win mode."

Well, I guess this turned into more of a charecter analysis thread for me than a "Explaining what's wrong with Buu" thing, but I'm sure you'll all get the point from this post.
 
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Buu may be powerful, but I still say Frieza, if used correctly, is the most powerful character in the game.

Buu can use his superior speed, HP, and abilities all he wants...but if I grab this Buu and throw-laser him, 100+ of his HP will be gone in mere seconds.

Frieza can deal amazingly high damage to an opponent without having to nuke the entire map....and all you need to do is simply grab and throw. Its easilly the cheapest legal move in the game, but if used correctly, you can beat anyone with it. Buu doesn't have that pleasure.

You said if 2 equally skilled players (a buu and a goku) fought, the buu would win, right? If it was Buu versus Frieza, I'd place all my money on frieza. Laser alone makes him the most dangerous. Thats why I use him most often in games. I can use him to beat those who are even better than me.

As many have stated. Stats don't prove a thing as long as you master a character's abilities and exploit them to their fullest.
 

nge

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Two players of equal skill, the one with freiza will not be able to sucessfully mount a throw-laser combination for several reasons-

1. Slower speed by that much means getting a throw in would be rare.
2. Such a significant PL difference means you'll be wasting the majority of your ki on the throw, and untransed you're going to get 1-2 lasers out, 3 tops.

You've got the laser advantage, but buu's got one of his own. Buu's throw/laser can be equally potent, and a hell of a lot more devistating to die to. Buu's greater speed will put you on the defencive, making a proper laser assault neigh impossible. There is very little you can do to recover from an onslaught from Buu, even if it's against yourself, aka equal skill. The speed difference is too great, and the health difference is going to make it so if you use your lasers offensively, you're just going to take some health away before getting pounded into the dirt.

Don't get me wrong, Freiza is quite a force, having the best hitscan for damage weapon in the game. If both players played their cards perfectly, and both had equal skill, Buu would still win, everytime. He'd take a good beating from the lasers, but Freiza other advantage against most charecters, his health, is negated fighting Buu, making it so Freiza would lose this war of attrition.
 
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Fire Phoenix said:
What's wrong with him expressing his affinity for Buu? He likes Buu, let him show how he feels. And in this case he's talking about the Buu ingame. Hence forth, he should have every right to start such a thread because it's in ESF chat.
Sorry, its just in my case buu is simple over powered. He starts with 1.200.000 (1.2M) which is unfair, and his blasts and HP is strong as well.
 
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ok ... i'll just say this ... you guys are talking about stats here ... but when it comes to the game there are many things to pay attention to .... so i really don't agree about cloning anyone cuz even if you cloned to have same skill and stuff like another one you'll allways play differently with all the caracters .... let's say when i play with buu i play like a buu ... and when i play with a goku i play like a goku .... so it's gonna be 2 different fighting styles .... you can't play with the same style 2 characters ... it's stupid ( it's like your goku and you trie to do a mouth blast in the middle of the game .... oops no mouth blast and there is no atack that can resemble the mouth blast ... there is kamehameha but that charges harder then a mouth blast) ..... so therefor it's imposible to have same skills and that with 2 charachters ..... cuz let's say your goku you don't have speed so you just don't run away you can use tactics .... and everyone has better tactics than other ..

So what i'm triing to say that no one knows if "in game" buu is better than goku .... at stats yes it's corect, he is better ... but now it depends on the "maniac" ( players ) that plays with these caracters .... so can you please close this topic ... it's kinda stupid ..
 
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Think of stats in rpg terms though, they were important (that's why, regardless of skill levels, low speed charcters like Krillin, Gohan & Trunks in there normal states are a lot easier to angle hit due to there lack of speed, so there at a disadvantage there, however this can very with your opponents skill ofcourse, but most of the time skill can't help at there considering how they are at a disadvantage simply because they aren't as fast as other classes in the game).
 
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LOL... omg, hahaha. So many posts =P I missed out on alot of info. Well guys, I submitted the BUU pic to POTW. HOWEVER, like Pain said, no custom content right?... Then i dont think I can even get in, cuz, the map I took the Scrnshot in is a custom map... Am I allowed to show the picture in this thread?
 
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As a completely un opinionated view on this subject, Krillin > everyone else > buu. :) j/k
Auctally I find buu to be a bit annonying. His fat ass always gets in the way of my screen. I can barely see teh stuf that I want to see when I play with buu. Even whem I zoom out he still covers a good ammount of the screen (not to mention I think zooming out is a horrible camera angle).

So buu is really all in the opinion of the person who plays him. He is the exact same as krillin (same trans pl) butj his overall bonus (speed and pl gain) is less then what krillin recieves, so that is why I believe buu isnt the best. This arguement doesnt count for others that dont have perminate transformations, because you can gain more pl while in detransed form, but since krillin doesnt have to worry about bieng vunerable while in transed state at low ki: krillin>everyone>buu.
 
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KilledWithStyle said:
As a completely un opinionated view on this subject, Krillin > everyone else > buu. :) j/k
Auctally I find buu to be a bit annonying. His fat ass always gets in the way of my screen. I can barely see teh stuf that I want to see when I play with buu. Even whem I zoom out he still covers a good ammount of the screen (not to mention I think zooming out is a horrible camera angle).

So buu is really all in the opinion of the person who plays him. He is the exact same as krillin (same trans pl) butj his overall bonus (speed and pl gain) is less then what krillin recieves, so that is why I believe buu isnt the best. This arguement doesnt count for others that dont have perminate transformations, because you can gain more pl while in detransed form, but since krillin doesnt have to worry about bieng vunerable while in transed state at low ki: krillin>everyone>buu.
this is a esf forum

read between the lines Mr. Spam-Warning-Guy :warning:
 
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And he was clearly talking about ESF. Thank you Mr. State-the-obvious. Have a warning for spam :warning:
 
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Buu isn't OVERpowered, almost but not completely, he is at the absolute limit, so it's fine.
Quote:
"Buu may be powerful, but I still say Frieza, if used correctly, is the most powerful character in the game.

Buu can use his superior speed, HP, and abilities all he wants...but if I grab this Buu and throw-laser him, 100+ of his HP will be gone in mere seconds.

Frieza can deal amazingly high damage to an opponent without having to nuke the entire map....and all you need to do is simply grab and throw. Its easilly the cheapest legal move in the game, but if used correctly, you can beat anyone with it. Buu doesn't have that pleasure.

You said if 2 equally skilled players (a buu and a goku) fought, the buu would win, right? If it was Buu versus Frieza, I'd place all my money on frieza. Laser alone makes him the most dangerous. Thats why I use him most often in games. I can use him to beat those who are even better than me.

As many have stated. Stats don't prove a thing as long as you master a character's abilities and exploit them to their fullest."

That is very good possiblity that frieza can maybe win.
If they had a competion with frieza vs. buu then frieza can maybe have a 4/10 win maybe even 5 or 6.
 

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Now, KWS, take an untransed krillin and compare it to an untransed Buu. That's hardly a fair fight- in fact, it ISN'T.
 
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Malarky said:
this is a esf forum

read between the lines Mr. Spam-Warning-Guy :warning:
Ravendust said:
And he was clearly talking about ESF. Thank you Mr. State-the-obvious. Have a warning for spam
haha owned

um to keep on topic and to get more then 10 words...buu is overpowered :)

why? hes fat and gets up fast if you outsmart a skilled guy playing him, he dosent eat dirt for 6 seconds like goku does
 
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hey, grega, heres a pic of the Buu PS with 2 gokus. Enjoy :D
 
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yeah, in that picture. I was vs 2 gokus. One goku fired a SB, the other did too, then the first one charge a new sb, ready to attack. You wanna know the result of that PS?.... -________-lll I lost. LOL......... BUT, I did pretty good when there were only 2... when the third came......... >< lol...
 
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looks good.. looks like people actually play with my map =o
 
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jagan said:
yeah, in that picture. I was vs 2 gokus. One goku fired a SB, the other did too, then the first one charge a new sb, ready to attack. You wanna know the result of that PS?.... -________-lll I lost. LOL......... BUT, I did pretty good when there were only 2... when the third came......... >< lol...
u got a screenie o the explosion ? o_o
 
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imkongkong, I used that map because I thought that the art on the water was EXTRAORDINARY! I like water maps =)... however, I think you know you have bugs on the map right? lol...
As for Malarky I don't have the explosion, but I can tell you wht it would look like. 'Buu vaporized, and the screen is white'. LOL...

here's one thats Im LOSING to the 2 SB -_-
 

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