Banning Scripters?

[sub]

If Sky pays money monthly for his server, he can do whatever he wants with his server. If he doesn't want people to use scripts on his server, people should respect that wish. If people don't, he does have the right to ban them.

The fact of the matter is, scripts do give you an advantage. I will admit that not all scripts give you an advantage and not all scripts should be a bannable offense, but there are some scripts that people should not be allowed to use. The swoop script is a perfect example. The teleport script from 1.1 was an even better example.

edit: I just want to add one more thing. While I do believe he should ban people he knows uses scripts, I don't think he should go around banning everyone he suspects of using scripts. He should have proof that they do infact use scripts (IE: The person admits it or he gets a plugin that tells if people use scripts)

 

[Skyrider]

Sub, i've contacted someone from the AMXX forums that might be able to help me detecting who ever uses scripts or not. Besides that point, thanks for your support Sub. This is like Counter-Strike. Why do you think some scripts there are ban-able? Due it gives unfair advantage, like in ESF.

 

[GoldenBlade]

I voted the 1st, because i truly think that Scripters destroy gameplay, and yes i consider it a way of cheating since you do things no one else can, thats the hole defenition of cheating. People shouldnt be forced to change to keep competive, if you want changes enjoy the options menu and stop there.
Sure this is only me and i accept other peoples ideas but i like to enjoy playing esf like most of you and i find it now sometimes frustrating. But hey! Starting banning like hell wouldnt make many sense since many players wont even see this and would be suprised by it. Nice poll FF|Skyrider

Some people just have stupid keyboards

 

[Skyrider]

I will only ban those who I am certain using scripts.

Oh, and by the way. Quote from Knux:

<3 skairaider <3

its about time some1 step up and do something.

so tired of these talentless scripters who think they are "pro's"


By scripting they are only showing that they need help and have no skill to play on their own. suckers.


i say ban them, ill let u know on msn if i see any.

Don't want to be rude anything. But see Sephize? Many people dislike those "script" users.

 

[nge]

The swoop script is the only easily made (debatibly) abusable script in ESF. Aside that, the majority I've seen used and requested are worthless- even the swoop script to some degree.

I've yet to see anyone banned from CAL-CS on grounds of scripting. That mod removed all the abuseable commands, or at least blocked them. The only scripts one can do in CS are buy scripts, or worthless ones such as "3 round burst" or "180 degree turn" scripts, both of which are not consistant no matter what, and worthless compared to the control regular movement offers.

I'm not saying it's wrong for you to ban whoever you want whenever you want on your own server. I'm offering my facts and opinions to clarify the situation as a whole, and my personal feelings towards it.

Such scripts as a charge/turbo? How is that exploitable- it makes up for the fact someone's mouse might not have as many buttions as someone elses. If someone with a 3 buttion mouse were fighting me, using a charge/turbo script, I wouldn't feel the least bit jipped because my mouse offers the same effect with two mouse buttons on the same side in close proximity to eachother (The logitech MX510). Most scripts are just ways to fix hardware problems- it's the abusive ones that give scripting an unjustly bad name.

A gen/turbo script? There is honestly NO way to tell if someone's doing that, because you can't tell when they've changed weapons in comparison to when they hit turbo. That sounds like a minor convinence at best, which removes an aspect of control to boot.

Name a script besides swoop scripting (in which we agree it is wrong but for different reasons) that is abuseive, and I offer to show you what it lacks.

Perhaps you ought to have a ban discussion/appeal forums if you're going to ban on the grounds of scripting- refer them to your site as they are banned, and give them a chance to plea their case and defend themselves should they desire it. It's your server and you can do what you will with it, but I'm sure it would give players on your server a much more enjoyable experiance should they become banned and feel it on incorrect/unfair terms.

 

[Suh Dude]

Where can I get this swooping script at? I want to piss all of you guys off at ESForces...

 

[nge]

DJ. Posts like that contribute nothing to this discussion. We're talking about an issue with many opinions- feel free to discuss the issue at hand, but don't turn it into something personal.

 

[Skyrider]

I have to agree on that Nge, please don't even ask for Scripts in this thread. I do have to agree again that the gen-turbo scripts are not that bad. The most which i hate is the swoop script. And many people already use them, and i want to talk action on that.

 

[Majin_You]

Where can I get this swooping script at? I want to piss all of you guys off at ESForces...

This is a suggestion thread. If you are not planning to contribute something constructive to the discussion, then do not post.

...and asking for scripts is a warnable offence. I will assume that your intent was to be "funny", though.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt this time. Do not expect it again.

 

[KarrdeKNR]

Keep in mind that some scripts, in other mods as well as ESF, allow you to do things that cannot be done otherwise because they operate at the fastest allowed pace, which in reality, could not be executed by humans at that speed. Especially multi action scripts. Also, there's one's that are lame for functionality. To use a few very simple examples, the full clip pistol discharge scripts in NS wherein the entire clip is emptied in about .5 seconds. Basically a fully automatic pistol that doesn't mess it's aim up due to one's finger jamming the mouse button. Also, you can script things like instant 90 degree turns, or similar features that could make melee way easier in ESF. Sure, you could do this normally, but the script lets you do it without having to practice it.

-Karrde-

 

[nge]

Karrde, I understand what you're trying to say, but your example is flawed. The pistol script in NS is nothing like that- they removed the ability to exploit an "auto-pistol" a long time ago. Furthermore, while the pistol has double the damage of the LMG, they capped it's rate of fire to half the LMG's rate of fire. It can deal damage no faster than the LMG, to prevent exploitable pistol scripting while allowing it to continue. The current script is mearly to save wear and tear on a gamers mouse- fireing at that speed is both possible, and quite easy for many.

The script works as follows- When you click, it fires, and when you lift your mouse, it fires. Due to the ROF cap on the pistol, instead of mashing it becomes timeing. If you press it too fast it will not fire. I can show you myself sometime, as I use it- I'm just as accurate either way, and that's a promise. Ask Smith for details

Secondly, 90 degree turn scripts are myth. They are quite easily written, however; it will NOT work with 100% accuracy, and it will lock your mouse for the duration of the script (be it .2 seconds. It's still mouse lock.) By not working with 100% accuracy, I mean that the settings on that persons computer need to be exactly the same every time it is executed. If the person gets an FPS drop of 1, it won't work right. If a person tries moving and using it, it won't work right. It's too detailed to work correctly- most of the good scripts work on a much more basic level.

There are a few exploitable commands in ESF still, but I'm not telling them publicly or privately for good reason. Those are the only unfair scripts I can think of, swoop scripts aside.



If you feel someone is swoop scripting, I agree that's unfair. Some people are honestly nearly that fast, making it quite difficult to tell. Once I get my new computer up, I could show you via demo's if you want for key things to look for. Unfortunatly, that would mean people would have to put up with me recording/playing with them for a while when I compiled the footage, so it would probably be best done on a closed testing basis.

 

[EncorE_SX]

3rd option...
I personally don't use swoop scripts or any kind of scripts because I can't control mine char when mine buttons are binded to only one key... Don't know about others... And its kinda lame but its choice of other peeps.

Heck, a lot of people in ESF's top ranking script ( thx Merce >_> ) - it maybe is a advantage, but just banning them because they script isn't allright. Blocking them to use scripts - that's another story and its advisable to do that instead.

Just because some n00b got a swoop script by somebody on MSN and doesn't know its mallicious material ingame, and gets banned because of it... rather stupid.

And in ESF, to take a note, everything is useable to your advantage. If someone keeps gliding and you start to catch him with only swoop and teleport, deplete your ki and then he tells its unfair advantage - sure it is, like scripts. I am just saying that you play the game. The more you improve on the fighting with scripters the more you will own them once scripts become blockable in ESF itself.

 

[Skyrider]

Heck, a lot of people in ESF's top ranking script ( thx Merce >_> ) - it maybe is a advantage, but just banning them because they script isn't allright. Blocking them to use scripts - that's another story and its advisable to do that instead.

Well, i'd rather do that as well. But at the moment there is no such plugin / script. And as far as i know, such is almost impossible to make server side.

 

[Sephize]

Sephize, I know exactly what you want to say. And perhaps I can't determine who ever uses scripts at the moment, and who's not. But with a few add-ons / plugins you can determine that quite easily.

If u have them, why don't u use those plugins already? Also, like i stated before, if ppl do not want to read, that's their choice! If I want to read about scripts, I will do so when it pleases me.

Also if I want to buy hardware to specificly help me in my game, then I will do so if I want to. Perhaps u want to call Logitech or other companies aswell with the demand that they not make mouses with 5 buttons cuz it's unfair to u cuz u cant match the keys on the keyboard fast enough >_>

 

[KarrdeKNR]

Karrde, I understand what you're trying to say, but your example is flawed. The pistol script in NS is nothing like that- they removed the ability to exploit an "auto-pistol" a long time ago.

Been a while since I played NS regularly so ;P Glad they fixed it, but the point stands anyhow. My point is the fact that it had to be fixed, I guess. Valve should have made scripting server side only from the beggining. Would allow them to do what they needed in terms of making control of the game easier (because scripting does allow for some programming related short cuts) and it would still leave server admins to do what they needed. Basically, Cvars and all could have been left in tact while keeping the rest of the commands out of the game for clients. Thats what shoulda happened imho.

-Karrde-

 

[nge]

While that's not a bad idea, some games would be limited with their current controls.

Some people in NS, for instance, bunnyhop using a +3jump script; this is easily the most harmless script that could ever have been written. Instead of the jump command going into console once, it goes in 3 times when the spacebar is placed.

Bunnyhopping started with the mousewheel, and is indeed easier with the mousewheel- some people are not comfortable with it though. Why take the ability to do the same thing with a different part of the keyboard?

In an ideal world, all the abusive scripts would be blocked somehow while the unabusive ones are remain usable- in other words, the games controls wouldn't require scripting in the first place (AKA in NS bunny hopping working quake 3 style.) This is rare, unfortunatly.

 

[GoldenBlade]

So its lamme. Yeah the swoop script can be a very annoying thing especially since the game is based on swooping and how fast u can do it.
No scripts on my server thats for sure.

 

[somerandomguy]

I find this whole debate rather silly, but thats just my opinion. I mean really why would a mod come out for an easily scripted game and then(without any way to enforce or disable) claim that scripting is not allowed. Or was this more of a community thing? Sure buddy its your server, but in your own words there are "many" people using scripts. Now how large is this community? Fairly small to be honest. So lets say you do this and other server admins decide hey lets do it too....The community which is already fairly small will shrink even more.

The only real solution to this issue is to block scripts if you are so deadset on people not using them. I honestly don't see what the big fuss is about though....As people have pointed out before scripts have trade offs...whether it be glitches they cause or simply limitations of the script...they are there. IMHO this game shouldn't be so focus'd on how many buttons you can mash per second, but it is and so long as it is people will find ways to reduce the buttons required. Whether its through scripts, hardware, or other programs they will find a way to make the controls easier.

Though I have to wonder will this plugin simply ban any script use? If so people running performance scripts will be in an uproar. Will it simply tell you who is running a script period? Then you are sitting there wondering which type...Or will you ban strangers and keep friends on because they are buddies? Hell I don't even care I don't really play this mod anymore...I peek in for the next version thats about it.

 

[nge]

Technically, everyone who has a file config (Every HL player ever) uses scripts. +attack? Script. +jump? Script.

I'm using the term in the sense it is being portrayed here.

 

[Gon]

I don't think this scripting issue is that big of a deal. Most people who do script, aren't that good because if they're hitting 1 button, say a swoop script. They wouldn't be as fast as someone actually double tapping swoop. Why? Well, after a player has gotten so used to the buttons, it's pretty easy to do what you want to do. People who play normally usually have faster reactions than those who script or hack.

And...

The top ranked ESF players do not all script. I personally don't know anyone who's ranked in the Top 10 that script.

You never know though.