Anime and it's similarities with Western Society

[The Postmaster]

*Please no flaming! I mean no offense to anyone with the following comment*

Me and a close friend of mine have lost a lot of respect for anime recently because we see it as merely Japanese animators designing cartoons to appeal to western society or at least Americans. Thus being american we feel if we want to check out our own culture we might as well watch CNN or FOX NEWS.

One example of this is that in a majority of these anime's the characters are wearing blue jeans (a staple of western society) as well as how some anime's like trigun featuring gun toting bad***'s, another staple of western society.

I would like to once again like to reiterate that I mean no offense by these opinions, I only wish to hear your comments.
A special thanks to my close friend "you know who you are" for these thoughts.

 

[SailorAlea]

Most of the animes that come to the United States as dubs, are the ones they think Americans would like, so naturally you're seen semi-western oriented anime. The majority of anime has absolutely nothing to do with the western hemisphere, and the anime you mentioned--Trigun, wasn't very popular in Japan, which is why the rest of the manga wasn't made into anime.

The bottom line is, you happen to be wrong. It's an interesting theory, but in the end--if you don't like anime, nobody is forcing you to watch it, and nobody's forcing you to criticize it, either.

 

[Hitokiri]

Animes are about many things. And they have many styles to them. Just as there are animes with a western edge to them, there are animes with more traditional style to them. Look at all the ninja/samurai anime out there, and look at how often an anime will star a Japanese character or be based in Japan as opposed to...well... anywhere else.

Jeans are not a "staple of western society" dude. What do you think they wear in Japan? Pleated hakamas?! They are all over the world. -=Japanese people wear blue jeans too.=- And sneakers. Some of them listen to hip-hop, some of them like baseball. It comes from the fact that we occupied their country. We leaked into them.

Trigun was set in a post-apocolypse-meets-Old West environment. So what? Are you insulted by that, as an American? That somebody was inspired enough by an aspect of your culture to include it in a highly popular animated series? Does it make it less entertaining? Do you know a show better than Trigun that they just totally ripped off, made in America? Are they somehow stealing from Dan Rather on CNBC news ?

If you think they're catering to you or something, you're wrong. Get this... JAPANESE PEOPLE ENJOY WESTERN CULTURE TOO. Just as some of us enjoy theirs. If some of it gets into their anime, so what? If it makes it more enjoyable, I don't see why not. It's no reason to "lose respect" for it.

But hey, be my guest. Turn off Yu Yu Hakusho because the guy wears...*gasp*...jeans. Because if you want jeans, you can turn on the 10 o clock news, right? That's why you watch these shows after all.

WTF. (no offense intended.)

 

[Tassadar]

I don't believe that Postmaster was offended by the fact that Trigun is basicly based in the West but rather why. The question I would ask, and him, is why a lot of anime is so has a lot of western charecteristics, and it's not always just what they do.

A question I would ask, is if a Japanese man were to draw an anime, would he not draw the charecter as a Japanese person? And I mean no racism or offense when I say this, but there is a difference between the average American(or most Europeans for that matter) man and the average Japanese man. The average anime charecter is very tall, for one, and because I would have to use stereotypes to describe the rest of the differences I believe a lot of people can fill in the blanks. I know that being an American, I like to watch shows involving America, that's not to be selfish, because I prefer shows like the West Wing over some Spanish soap opera, because I am not Spanish.

Anyway, I do love anime, and I've never met a Japanese person I didn't like. I hate to use this example, but look at something like Sailor Moon, granted it is set in Neo Tokyo but my point is is that there aren't many 6 foot blonde chicks that are... that well built running around in Japan. I know that comes off as sounding mean, but one could argue it's the truth.

Now, I know that there are just as many animes that involve more of Japanese culture than some of the examples I've used, but I'm just saying that I've seen enough similarities to warrent asking 'why.'


Alea, have mercy, like Postmaster, I meant no offense.

 

[SailorAlea]

As a sidenote, Sailor Moon is set in Tokyo, not "Neo Tokyo." At some point they go to Crystal Tokyo, which is in the future.

Characters in anime are drawn tall, and with red, blue, blonde and green hair, because brown and black hair are very common in Japan, as well as short people.

It's the same thing.. In American TV, what do you see?

On kid's shows, you see an "Ethnic Melody," with a few caucasian kids, an asian kid, a black kid, a hispanic kid, and in Adult's shows you usually see pretty tall people, almost always with perfect skinny figures, perfect teeth, tons of makeup--it's the same sort of thing, you're just used to seeing it.

 

[Tassadar]

My mistake about the Tokyo thing, haven't watched that show in at least 3-4 years.

Anyway, you make a good point about the ethnic shows, but I believe I could argue that America itself has these ethnic shows because of the insane drive for everyone to be politicly correct and for everyone to treat everyone 'nice' and never, ever use a stereotype.

Another argument I could make is the fact that America is a country of immigrants, and seeing an asian, black, or hispanic kid on your TV or in your town for that matter would be perfectly normal. My argument is, Americans don't swell to Japan in millions, not to the point where we would be seen all over their TV (although our culture has stretched all over the world) so why would they use these blatenly 'perfect white people' charecteristics when drawing your average anime charecter.

The image of a perfect person to a Japanese man shouldn't be a tall blonde male, but rather a shorter man with brown or black hair right?

 

[SailorAlea]

Not necessarily. There are tall Japanese people, they're just rare. In any case, while the USA is a very ethnically diverse country, in my experience most people seem to hang out with their own clique, usually composed of kids of one race, and a few "outliers." The kind of diversity you see in TV shows sometimes, is completely unrealistic.

Almost EVERYBODY in Japan is pretty short, with light skin, and brown/black hair. In order to keep everybody's attention, for longer in any case, people are made unusual. All kinds of colors of hair, tall and short characters, and all sorts of clothes. As Hito said, our occupation of Japan had a large influence on their society, even today.

But anime isn't tailored to suit western audiences, as anime is made from manga, and the majority of manga aren't read outside Japan, much less translated, or made into anime, then licensed and dubbed.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

Poor kid. This was the wrong place to put any type of thread that denounces any sort of infinite greatness in the world of japanese pop culture contribution. :0\

You can't bring up anime on this board without either jumping on absolute hatred for dbz, or talking about how badly butchered american dubs are. Other topics and points of views counter to those in particular are apparently not allowed.

I think I agree with you on a lot of the western concepts, but obviously when an anime gets brought over to America it gets brought over because it might do well with an american audience. Traditionally, they are edited, and anime elitist nazis usually ***** about that like it's the end of the universe and we're all going to die. But mostly, I prefer the edits, personally. In these edits, removing most of the odd-to-an-american-audience japanese stuff usually is a side effect of the cuts, and to be honest a lot of times I prefer the edits. Which, I guess, means that they do a good job "Westernizing" those animes that already have potential audiences in the west.

I usually like anime as long as it is not one of two things:

1.) Overly self-absorbed, or
2.) "Hokey." And it is very clear to me that there must not be a japanese word for "hokey" because a lot of it comes off that way and sometimes in serious animes they do hokey things and it just ends up annoying me. :0\

There is a point of note, too: I almost never like a japanese version of a show compared to the american one. Literally, I have yet to find one. Some movies aren't so bad, but mostly, I tend to prefer the americanized dubs of shows.

As my training as a producer and my work in college relating to tv goes...I just prefer americanized production values to the japanese ones, 9 times out of 10. That, and I'm horribly turned off by the psychotic anime fans who want to murder people because they like a "bad" anime or a "bad" dub.

Essentially I think you bring up an interesting point, honestly. I doubt it was a purposeful intent of the animes in question, but it is an interesting thing to look for.

 

[Ecchi Pr0n]

*ENTERS THE GREAT ECCHI_PR0N*

there as several psycholigal points in anime that ppl have yet to discuss in here, so kiddies quiet down and listen to Uncle Ecchi as I haven’t been here in awhile and my stays are not very long and are far apart.

I don’t know about you guys but when I was growing up I watched bootlegs over the standard TV of the mid 80s a course I watched dubbed robotech and transformer but that’s beyond the point

To me an anime character has always had links to Japanese ppl just the very best of them.

(IE when you go to a movie you'd see Arnold swatchnaiger or whatever takes on the predator)

|you wouldn’t want to see like hmmm (no offense your name just popped into my head first, right before Orion) ryoko scream a bloody and take on the predator in hand to hand combat and such|

So as that you get the cream of the crop in the spotlight

Next come on the hair!!!!!! Yes well in a land where black hair is dominate, doesn’t pink hair draw your attention????? I mean yea it makes a person stand out to be different

Okay well as we continue on, we have to come up with a setting
Inuyasha = feudal era
gundam = space age
Last exile = industrial age
Hellsing = modern era

Basically like hiti said, the clothing fit the era

And right now jeans are basic pants in the "in crowd" of our world

Fashion is a giant mass cluster @#!@ of different cultures I mean its soooo bad you cant figure out where it first came from without a little bit of in depth knowledge

So okay let’s recap . . . ive covered my upbringing-racial imaging, hair, settings, and clothing so let’s move on.

So trigun . . . hmmmm
Why can't Japanese ppl like a good ol' cowboy shootem up?

I mean Americans and "western society" LOVE samurai and kung fu movies, even the old classics like yojimbo and the blind swordsmen, and even make their own. Might I remind you of all the Steven seagull and jean Claude van dam movies (lets not forget kill bill)

So Trigun is a western anime, as lets say shoulan showdown is a Eastern Cartoon ~_~

So moving again to our next stop
If you watch dubs or American subs its tailored for Americans to enjoy - its dialogue is sometimes changed and scenes altered to fit what Americans think is okay

As we see the world today it isn’t
Asia------------------------------USA-----------------Europe

It’s AsiaUSAEurope

As with global commerce and the UN and things like that

~_~ where was I in this mass blog of words which is VERY valuable if you understand it, or a waste of your time if you don’t and think im crazy or wrong

So as I progress through the hamsters are popping out of my eyes so let’s wrap this up

Our world has no great culture divisions it’s a mass orgy of everyone with babies being shot out of mixed cultures, very seldom now is a child a pure breed and as such we can no longer think of an idea as "western" or "eastern" it’s just simply a "human" idea

Motorcycles!!! There western
Hmmm lets mousy on down to my garage to see my uncles Ninja Motorcycle
Ninjas!!!! There eastern
Hmmm CIA and secret agents that really "don’t exist"

so since ive either helped you understand stuff, or made you THINK I wasted your time, or you stopped reading in the middle I don’t care cause I just thought I’d come by and play with you kiddies and will return back to my lair on IRC Catch you there O_~

And yea sorry i didnt have time to spell check my advice but i trust your smart enough to piece things together

 

[EricW]

I notice in quite a few animes that they take historical events and items then distort them a bit and use them as material. Some anime story's have alot of similarities with real life events.

 

[Shogi]

So what if some anime's have a "western basis"? What makes you think the gun toting badass is a completely western concept? Whats wrong with Japanese people making anime about the wild west?

I think the problem is that you've ONLY watched anime that has appeared on FOX or Cartoon Network, in which case you're taking your examples from so of the ****tiest stuff ever made (with obvious exceptions). Not to mention that most of the "aniem" that appears on fox WAS designe specifially for america, because they were licensed by an american company.

Go look at some more obscure anime like Samurai Champloo and you will see almost NO western influence. In addition to that, Who says all these concept are specifically Western? HKBO movies (hong kong blood opera's; think john woo) have been around for quite some time. Jeans are ****ING EVERYWHERE. Every kid in every country at some point or another hears some story about the wild west.

There is abolutly nothing wrong with an anime having western influences, and nor do most animes have western influences. Ive seen many an anime where i experieced kind of a culture shock, i didnt know what was going on.

Also, how do you know what Japan is like? As far as ive seen, Japan is very much liek America with the exception of language and religion. Anoter reason why western animes show up is because, it's japan, you see samurai **** ALL DAY LONG. for them western anime is very different, so it may attract more attention because you don't see much of it. It's different.

We're all human, american or japanese, so naturally we often dream of the same things. One thing hat shows up alot in anime is giant robots. Power rangers was probably one of the first shos in the US to feature giant fighting robots.

If you don't want "western anime" stop watching CN and FOX. Rent dvd's you've never neard of. AVOID THE MAINSTREAM.

 

[SailorAlea]

Your flame aside, Shogi.. I have no IDEA why you brought up Samurai Champloo, when it's western influence is totally apparent. The opening is even in English, some of the characters rap in a few episodes, etc..

 

[Draylock1]

Wait a second, what anime's are postmaster specifically talking about, that would solve half of this problem, then people talking about random anime's and getting shut out by alea. Not to be racist, but the only station I've seen "aimed at people" is BET. Wow.. what clothing would you give your anime characters? Robot suits or baggy clothes? I watch anime.. atleast what I like, and its definatly not "pointed" at anything.

 

[Ecchi Pr0n]

*puts on his “latex” helmet*

Seems like SOMEONE didn’t read my long ass post

Yes im talking to you shogi . . .

ive covered all of that in what you said (minus that ridiculous thought that samurai champloo has NO western influence . . . when there’s rapping yakuze . . the opening song is in English . . . OH AND LETS NTO FORGET ITS JUST COWBOY BEBOP in everyway, well that how sunrise does anime, it follows the same pattern as cowboy bebop, where threes a main plot, but is the back round to wild and crazy adventures. and lets not forget Mugen's break dancing fighting moves

*bangs head against wall* you guys calm down and play nice, anime is like books, not worth getting banned over

Shogi I don’t watch mainstream, ive never been mainstream, infact ive never bought a region 1 DVD, I wont support American dubs or below par subs

Draylock I already covered that in my first post

And alea that wasn’t a flame

again sorry i didnt run this through spellcheck or anything i dont have the time

 

[Tassadar]

Word, I'm gonna make my own channel, WET. Fill in the blank. Too bad it would mean I'm racist in this country.

Shogi's post might not have been a flame, but he could have done something to not sound so much like an *******. Thanks for posting Ecchi, I know your not around the board much and it's nice to have the Forums very own Ero-Sennin for your take on things.
This isn't a connundrum, it was a simple question and should be responded with a simple answer like Alea's or Hito's. It's not really the animes I've seen itself, it's the drawing style, the charecters just don't look Japanese, I mean look at my avatar (which has now been replaced), if Cloud didn't have bigass spiky hair, do you think he would be from a Western-like state (I.E. America, Europe) or Japan? My only question was why would the Japanese draw almost all anime charecters on 'perfect white person' charecteristics.

 

[SaiyanPrideXIX]

here is abolutly nothing wrong with an anime having western influences, and nor do most animes have western influences. Ive seen many an anime where i experieced kind of a culture shock, i didnt know what was going on.

I don't think he ever said there was anything wrong with it.

My only question was why would the Japanese draw almost all anime charecters on 'perfect white person' charecteristics.

This has always bothered me, too. That's why I almost get brought to involuntary vomitous reaction every time I hear some DBZ fan talking about Jackie Chan playing Goku in the (entirely fictional) DBZ movie.

 

[Shogi]

Sorry, my post wasn't meant as a flame, honestly i was just trying to make my point. As for Samurai champloo, i blame marijuana, i meant to say naruto.

 

[KyoKusanagi]

I don't really think its a case of anime emulating western society, its more that the Japanese and Western societies in general are more similar than most people think. And by society i mean things like school, going to work and general day to day life.

This is not to say they're the same - they will never be the same because the culture in the two societies is vastly different.