Android 17

[Zeroc Corez]

@Zeroc Corez: One Question! because you are helping the team right now...........what was their feedback? did they say that they atleast still need a A17?
or........did they show u a ingame shot of your model? for maybe fixing something on the skin?
what did they do? tell us! i bet nothing!

These are some good questions my good sir!
First of all, I'm getting some picky, but pretty good feedback from the forum. When I asked Masta what he thought about the model, he said the lips looked weird. When I asked Raven what he thought about the model, he said the hands look weird...

did they say that they atleast still need a A17?

Well, I'm assuming that they do need one, since their old 17 model was pretty bad, and besides, the devs would probably have told me if they didn't need my model. If they really don't need my model, I would seriously be pissed off >__>

or........did they show u a ingame shot of your model? for maybe fixing something on the skin?
what did they do?

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN REAAAAAALLLLYYYY HELPFUL. Seriously, I asked Masta if I could get a copy of the game( I'm not sure if I should call it the "game", what I'm talking about here is some sort of enviroument where you could see how your model, mostly maps, would look inside the game, I know Robiz had that) but he said that I should have atleast completed one model for the project. As I said, it would be really helpful to see how my model would look ingame, that way, I could adjust the textures and actually know how it would look ingame!

 

[Ryokeen]

The problem is, to see how the model looks ingame you need to at least compile it into the model format wich is used ingame. And we once had a stripped down test version of ESF, like a year or so ago. But at the current state even i don't want to do that because all stuff like shaders and whatnot are not encrypted or something like that. And i don't want such stuff to be floating around. Atm i try to improve the modelviewer to at least support the model shaders and such so that any modeller can preview the models after compiling with the shaders used ingame. But i must say for the model itself and the diffuse texture you don't need to have it ingame, becaue ingame 100% selfilluminated is the same as viewing it in 3Ds max 100% selfilluminated.

 

[Zeroc Corez]

Hmm... I see your point.

But i must say for the model itself and the diffuse texture you don't need to have it ingame, becaue ingame 100% selfilluminated is the same as viewing it in 3Ds max 100% selfilluminated

That's a problem for me. I use blender and I don't have or want to download 3Ds max. But my main concern now is how to make the normal map that you guys insist on having!

 

[Ryokeen]

Blender,3Ds max, Milkshape, that all looks the same when selfilluminated^^, main difference might be the FOV used to a perspective renderer. ESF uses a FOV of 50(vertical)
And about the normalmap, "we" need one. i can just tell you that without it a model just looks flat and lowpoly, because it lacks small scale details.

 

[LSSJ]

The information I was given was that it was completely unwanted in its unfinished form, I had no idea Layne wanted it even as an unskinned model

With that information I apologise for telling you it wasn't wanted at all

I'm sure you've been told a couple of times you can get help on TS. Raven, Ryo and Masta are normally around to help. Occasionally you'll find Layne.

I'm sure RobiZ and TDM would help if you asked.

But like you were told it's hard for others to skin your work as they are time poor. Maybe you could negotiate somebody to finish it off if you do some basic skinning, just get them to fill the detail?

I can't explain why your posts went missing but it had nothing to do with me. Skyrider is the best person to ask in that situation

"But like you were told it's hard for others to skin your work as they are time poor."
that i got told by you and green. but the guys who actually would work with it on their maps think otherwise!
if u dont exactly know how stuff is needed and maybe you should start thinking if you are the right guy to answer to.....
even if the time is poor......when i did half of the work already on doing the model.........that is one half they wouldnt have to do!

and sure there is TS but that is not important. i cant enter the ts and hope for somebody to be there that actually can help.

if u check Zerocs problem now........he is doing a A17..........ok........is that still needed? or already done but not shown.
i was told that the skeletons were changed......does he know that?
how shall he prepare the model?
to fix the skin he needs a ingame shot. to match it to the other chars......a version of the game aint needed....but maybe a ingame shot...... or a crippeled version we he only can get to the char selection screen or something.
otherwise if he uploads everytime a new skin for his model.........it takes years untill the skin is matched to the others....
he gives so much energy into his help.......and i dont think that kind of help is appreaciated in the way it should be!
he already prove himself that he can help and that he aint just saying to help to maybe catcha new version of the game.

the helpers werernt given usefull informations.......nothing to work with(testversion)
how are we supposed to give a "final" model or map like we shall if we cant do it with the lag of informations?

for mappers.........after months of stupid questioning i got told water in maps is now coded....so tell me how shall i do water without having the chance to test the map?
i cant finish my map when some parts needs to be coded and some other parts need some other stuff and i dont know anything about it.

sad fact!


ALSO:
when did u last time saw a suggestion where a coder said: approved?
we suggest whole time stuff here.....maybe it gets read......maybe not.......only some random guys say their thoughts.......actual feedback of the team......no!
ok grega is highly active......but still he is only a mapper(no offense)

and because of all that! and the fact that i personally still think that we never get to play this game at all, i feel sad for everyone who even thinks on helping here!
its only a waste of their good time!

 

[Nebulisreconx]

Blender,3Ds max, Milkshape, that all looks the same when selfilluminated^^, main difference might be the FOV used to a perspective renderer. ESF uses a FOV of 50(vertical)
And about the normalmap, "we" need one. i can just tell you that without it a model just looks flat and lowpoly, because it lacks small scale details.

Hahaha! finally the new FOV comes to front! Yeah I thought it was at like 70 or something just going of what it looked like in 1.2.3. No wonder the maps look so big and speed seemed very picked up. Good blanket of FOV there. I hope the FOV is adjustable still.


Zeroc keep up the phenomenal work bud!

 

[Ryokeen]

@LSSJ making a stripped down version is something wich takes a lot of time. Why ? Because of the way how the renderer in ESF works, 95% of what the complete game has is necessary to even startup the ingame renderer. But as i said i'm working on a modelviewer version wich comes close to ingame view. But for fixing a skin you don't need ingame shots. Lighting or a rampmap won't change the diffuse skin. Oh and about that coded water...WTF are you talking about, if you rly would have asked any team-member you wouldn't have been told that you set the ocean/water height via xml and done. As for testing or whatever, does it rly makes a difference when you have a crappy looking waterplane as a placeholder and know that once it's ingame there will be a good looking waterplane ? It's easy to complain all the time, but it's rly hard to explain something to ppl.

About the FOV, 50 is vertical, means it's the FOV betweem sceen bottom and screen top, when running a 1080p resolution the horizontal FOV(horizontal is most of the time the one you talk about) is 89. We changed that quite some time ago because ESF looked too much fish-eye, even worse than UT or quak3

Oh and btw whoever needs help can stop by on TS or send a team-member a pm here. We allways try to help, but sometimes it's hard to do so when the person don't know much about how game engines work.

 

[Zeroc Corez]

if u check Zerocs problem now........he is doing a A17..........ok........is that still needed? or already done but not shown.

I'm pretty sure it's still needed.

i was told that the skeletons were changed......does he know that?

Why do I care? I will finish 17 and have early acces to the game...

when did u last time saw a suggestion where a coder said: approved?
we suggest whole time stuff here.....maybe it gets read......maybe not.......only some random guys say their thoughts.......actual feedback of the team......no!

I am 100% with you on that one. But here is the thing, MANY fans (mostly on moddb and FB) are complaining, they want the game to be realesed as fast as possible. When we suggest new ideas and feauters and they do get approved, that will mean that the game would take more time to finish. So if they make one person happy, all the other fans are going to complain, AND poor Grega gets all the blame xD

ok grega is highly active......but still he is only a mapper(no offense)

I don't think he is a mapper bro...

Zeroc keep up the phenomenal work bud!

Thanx I will

 

[LSSJ]

@LSSJ making a stripped down version is something wich takes a lot of time. Why ? Because of the way how the renderer in ESF works, 95% of what the complete game has is necessary to even startup the ingame renderer. But as i said i'm working on a modelviewer version wich comes close to ingame view. But for fixing a skin you don't need ingame shots. Lighting or a rampmap won't change the diffuse skin. Oh and about that coded water...WTF are you talking about, if you rly would have asked any team-member you wouldn't have been told that you set the ocean/water height via xml and done. As for testing or whatever, does it rly makes a difference when you have a crappy looking waterplane as a placeholder and know that once it's ingame there will be a good looking waterplane ? It's easy to complain all the time, but it's rly hard to explain something to ppl.

About the FOV, 50 is vertical, means it's the FOV betweem sceen bottom and screen top, when running a 1080p resolution the horizontal FOV(horizontal is most of the time the one you talk about) is 89. We changed that quite some time ago because ESF looked too much fish-eye, even worse than UT or quak3

Oh and btw whoever needs help can stop by on TS or send a team-member a pm here. We allways try to help, but sometimes it's hard to do so when the person don't know much about how game engines work.

well ask greenberet(or is he not inteam?).before deverz took the job we all should talk to him about helping...i wanted to make a map first and there i got told water is coded nowmaps arent bsp anymore and skeletons did change.if your guys here dont know what really happens inside then you see the point! that is what i am talking about! helpers dont need a PR guy they need a mapper or modeler.
unfortunatly it seems i dont have the email anymore
i know that you cant make a ingame renderer in 3seconds but that is also not the point! we shall do here final stuffwithout access to anything to proper test it. sure i can make half crappy placeholder but since we shall give final stuff here that is not possible. if a crappy one is gonna look later ingame good.....i could work with that but know what? you dont even get that information^^
and to your TS point. i was on TS sometimes.nobody there who could have helped me.........and PM? i wrote some PM here IF u ever get a response.it takes a whole lot of time
so all not pretty helpfull in my opinion. about easy and hard. i got another one:
its easy for the team to ask for help here. its hard to fullfill that without proper informations....and its a shame how people are treated here if they wanna help. He still doesnt even know if the team still needs a A17 how is that helpfull?!!? we dont even know with what we should help. i laugh my ass off if there comes a post which says it is already done.

but ohwell.......lets get back to topic.....but shall i let you see the future? that model wont get ingame and there will be no ingame at all in the next 10years. and in 10years nobody will write here anything anymore....simply dead then <--my bet!

@Zeroc: keep up the great work! even if you will have nothing from helping here. the experience will give u a lot! what you maybe find usefull in other projects

 

[Zeroc Corez]

well ask greenberet..........before deverz took the job we all should talk to him about helping...i wanted to make a map first...........and there i got told water is coded now.....maps arent bsp anymore and skeletons did change........if your guys here dont know what really happens inside then you see the point! that is what i am talking about! helpers dont need a PR guy......they need a mapper or modeler.....
unfortunatly it seems i dont have the email anymore....
i know that you cant make a ingame renderer in 3seconds..........but that is also not the point! we shall do here final stuff.......without access to anything to proper test it. sure i can make half crappy placeholder but since we shall give final stuff here that is not possible. if a crappy one is gonna look later ingame good.....i could work with that but know what? you dont even get that information^^
and to your TS point.......i was on TS sometimes....nobody there who could have helped me.........and PM? i wrote some PM here........IF u ever get a response......it takes a whole lot of time....
so all not pretty helpfull in my opinion. about easy and hard........i got another one:
its easy for the team to ask for help here.........its hard to fullfill that without proper informations....and its a shame how people are treated here if they wanna help. He still doesnt even know if the team still needs a A17 how is that helpfull?!!? we dont even know with what we should help.....i laugh my ass off if there comes a post which says it is already done.

but ohwell.......lets get back to topic.....but shall i let you see the future? that model wont get ingame and there will be no ingame at all in the next 10years. and in 10years nobody will write here anything anymore....simply dead then <--my bet!

@Zeroc: keep up the great work! even if you will have nothing from helping here......the experience will give u a lot! what you maybe find usefull in other projects

Bro, I will tell you the truth. I got TREMENDOUS amount of help here. You have no idea how much I sucked when I first arrived. The team and the fans of this game all encourged me and gave me the strenght and will to get better. You see this isn't my thread. I made one a long time ago. I really sucked at modeling, I'm not sure what went through my head when I was thinking about helping the team while I was so bad at modeling. But still, the encourged me, even though I wasn't good at all. That is why I really want to help them. You can see the thread here:
http://forum.esforces.com/threads/156744-Vegeta-W-I-P
The people on this forum are great, even though some could go on your nerves but they are all good people

 

[Ryokeen]

Yeah yeah you couldn't resist saying the game won't come out again oh btw dunno if you knew, my Profile says "Senior Member" but actually i'm the guy who coded the ******* renderer in ESF that's why i know how all that works. I'm not a modeller, i know, i can't help with tools, but i still know how to model. I allways try to explain how stuff works and what should be done to make it work and look good. And that's why i can say, when you place a model ingame and turn of shading(that so called selfilluminated) it WILL look the same as in any other modelling tool when renderer with selfillumination. Personally my problem is, i can't explain that well and sometimes when ppl come into TS and aks questions they just lack the basic knowledge of like how shading is done in computer graphics(like baisc lambertian lighting), or how blendmaps work, what the difference is between a material and a shader. Sometimes i spend hours trying to explain stuff and guess what ? Most loose interest because they need to learn something new.
What most don't get is...ESF isn't a mod anymore it's engine works like any modern engine and that means it's no longer "just put some texture on a mesh and done". Mappers and modellers should have a basic knowledge on how things work.

 

[Dead Hunter]

I don't understand why are you guys even searching for help here. Google and YouTube is all you need. People are really good at sharing knowledge and everything you need to know from basics to advanced usage of something is shared. Mostly you'll find all about modeling on YouTube.

 

[Zeroc Corez]

I don't understand why are you guys even searching for help here. Google and YouTube is all you need. People are really good at sharing knowledge and everything you need to know from basics to advanced usage of something is shared. Mostly you'll find all about modeling on YouTube.

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much, you don't have to answer anything. The reason I ask here is because I want to know a specifik thing, which somethimes can not be found. Besides, most of the time I ask about feedback about my model, which you guys can answer. Again, you shouldn't feel obligated to answer anything

 

[Deverz]

If the community you're creating the content for is willing and able to help then that is the best place to get it.

You don't want to end up on a walking dead forum asking if your Goku looks right

 

[LSSJ]

If the community you're creating the content for is willing and able to help then that is the best place to get it.

You don't want to end up on a walking dead forum asking if your Goku looks right

but that is going to happen! thanks for closing the"why you beggin" thread.....

i voted for another mod btw...almost 10years without a update.....really hope this wont get in the top 5 here. if it already did...so what

 

[BANDIT]

You guys know what?

you really deserve not to be listed on the mod of the year!

you treat you people here like trash!
LSSJ and Zeroc Corez BOTH created stuff for you! even without proper responses! Zeroc even said he doesnt even know if a A17 is needed!
and then you wonder why they get pissed of????
you close and ban everyone insulting you.
why you closed that threat before? why you banned that guys?
because they both were speaking the truth!
and noW they both are banned!??!?!
know what that is called??? admin right abuse!

you always show nice pics of stuff you have and we dont!
you never give us anything about that!
like i followed you seem to ask for help. But when u get support, you simply kick it!(in german that sentence maybe makes more sense)

and the best part of this here.the mod is sure dead since years.
2 or more guys simply just shoot some pics for fun and post it here.

all this community is nothing more now than abusing admin rights, some guys which offer help but get ignored by the team, some stupid talking about nonsense and not one bit about the game here!
when was the last time you guys saw a suggestion abroved by a developer? we suggest and suggest here. talk to ourselfs. there is NO response if the team even knew that there is maybe a good idea!

nothing!

we should all leave this here and finally and for all take the only thing these guys got left! their fun of showing us stuff we will NEVER lay our hands on!

 

[Z Power]

LSSJ and Bandit are the same person. He got too many infractions which resulted in his ban. Zeroc got banned for post pr0n in chat box. Just a clarification.

 

[Wolf]

Zeroc asked me to post this picture instead of him (because he's banned). He wants to hear your opinions on the model, and add the final touches to it

http://puu.sh/e6Zyd/1c4ebf3b5e.jpg

 

[hleV]

There is nothing to add, he didn't fix what I told him to fix.
Also the pistol looks low quality.

 

[Reading Rainbow]

looks good to me.