advanced melee - 3 stage attack concept

Lost in space
Banned
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
2,497
Best answers
0
i realize that this may be a bit complicated, but its "advanced" melee so i thought it wouldnt matter all to much as long as its not over balanced. btw, lets try not to think of "advanced" melee as noob-friendly melee. remember how that worked out?

Mechanics:
it will make it a little harder for higher pings, but the way i have it worked out it should still be fast paced and be easy to deal with

its the same way that advanced works now, just swoop into him with either mouse 1 held or nothing at all held. id prefer it be changed to mouse1

the way it works is a 3 stage system. each stage is different so ill explain VERY thoroughly, just bare with me. you wont get the entire thing, or my vision of it until you get to the very end.

STAGE 1:
does 3-5 quick hits, the last hit being a smash hit. its random, you either get 3, 4 or 5 but not on an actual basis. for the 3 to 5 hits you press either up down left or right. these are the quick hits, and the different directions is for a different attack. such as a leg sweep, a straight punch etc. they alternate between being kicks and punches randomly. these attacks are weak and fast, they dont really matter. the only attack that matters is the last one which will be a smash hit.

the smash hit can go in whichever direction you choose, including a backwards throw if you press the secondary mouse as his last hit (meaning you throw the enemy behind you.) the attack as a whole does only as much as a basic hit, or half of a basic hit if you missed the smash attack (as explained below) or threw him.

the directions go as follows. right hits your opponent right, left is left, the down button hits your opponent to the ground, up hits your opponent to the ceiling, mouse1 hits your opponent forward like a basic hit and mouse 2 throws your enemy behind you karate style (but not doing damage).

the last hit, which is a smash attack, can be evaded by pressing the corresponding direction. but, **** arrows, the last attack is on the slow side and if you have experience youll know which direction is which animation. the only one you cant evade is a throw since its a grapple attack. still, the attack is quick enough (the entire thing is only about 1.5 to 2 seconds long) to be a threat if your not really prepared to evade it.

now onto stage 2, which is alot less complicated.
STAGE 2:
this is basically prepunch.

after you smash your opponent out of the stage 1 attack he will fly in which ever direction you chose giving you until he recovers to do a stage 2 attack. he will go a little faster and further than a normal basic melee hit so it wont be all that easy to get him again. a couple quick teleports and swoop into him. you basic initiate a prepunch sequence thats lasts about a second, and finishes with a smash hit in whichever direction your facing

thats really it for stage 2. stage 3 is even less complicated.

STAGE 3:
after the hit from prepunch, assuming he hasnt hit anything you can do another quick couple of teleports (harder this time, of course) and do 1 of these. i havent decided which would be implemented so feedback would be nice. here they are:
1. you just do a basic melee hit that does a little extra damage
or
2. you throw your opponent to the ground, allowing for some ki spammage (so to speak).

well, death or feedback. i advise the latter. i think its a decent idea, combines the concept of basic with advanced. of course, id prefer advanced be taken out but...im gonna add some minor details, such as WHEN you know your supposed to attack, stuff like that, in a few minutes.
 
brainfeeder
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
May 29, 2002
Messages
5,179
Best answers
0
It's a decent idea....

What I've been considering is when you chain the second hit, you go into advanced mode, and do a chain punch combo to a power kick.
 
Freelance Mappzor
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
The idea is nice. But how about making it possible to block or maby even counter it from within the sequence.

But i like the way you are thinking :p
 
King of the Hello Kitty Fanclub
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
1,675
Best answers
0
The idea is nice. But how about making it possible to block or maby even counter it from within the sequence.

But i like the way you are thinking :p
I think thats critical, I'll be hated for saying this (I think) but what annoys most new players is the inability to do anything when being smashed around by chained basic melee hits, and to reference wrestling games (I know its not really the same) all moves have a way for an opponent to counter or at least interupt the move/combo.
 
Beta Tester Squad
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Best answers
0
Hey I had an Idee to change the melee to and keep the procentage fast

Here is one ideea I will post the other one later.
For Advance melee it will work something like this,swoop into an enemy wile holding Left mouse buton.After you reach the enemy you will do a fast combo fast hiting your oponet the dmg will be higher then simple melee ,but you can
block this attack and if you block you will not recive any dmg , the loopback distants will be with 25% slamler them the normal loopback.
 
Freelance Mappzor
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
Hey I had an Idee to change the melee to and keep the procentage fast

Here is one ideea I will post the other one later.
For Advance melee it will work something like this,swoop into an enemy wile holding Left mouse buton.After you reach the enemy you will do a fast combo fast hiting your oponet the dmg will be higher then simple melee ,but you can
block this attack and if you block you will not recive any dmg , the loopback distants will be with 25% slamler them the normal loopback.

John thats like spaming prepunch all the time.
 
Beta Tester Squad
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Best answers
0
no no the ideea is to make an advance melee similer to simple melee,added a new ideea to the game conter Advance melee you will conter the attack by using block + LMB it will make you miss and hit the enemy in the back
 
Freelance Mappzor
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Nov 21, 2003
Messages
17,065
Best answers
0
no no the ideea is to make an advance melee similer to simple melee,added a new ideea to the game conter Advance melee you will conter the attack by using block + LMB it will make you miss and hit the enemy in the back
I told this to kong allready. But if advanced melee is the same as simple melee with an animation sequence then its pointless to have it in.

The originall idea of this thread is nice but it needs to be fited out with a means of counter so it doesnt turn out as poverpowered as simple melee is right now. On that note simple melee allso needs to be edited to make it harder to pull off multiple hits or maby even the posibility to block the hits while you are in blowback mode.
 
The Brain Freezer
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
1,374
Best answers
0
well thats cool but I think some things are missing. How about:

-Swoop to the enemy
-Normal puch and kick 1-10 hits:

*While between 1-10 hits you can press LMB
a) When you press LMB you char starts charging an intensity bar corresponding to the intensity of a smash attack, that once that gets full its an oportunity lost.
b) When you press the intensity bar you must choose very quiclky the direction of that smash attack before it gets full and lost.
c) The intensity bar gets full like in 1 second so, either you press the bar very quickly at low intensity and the enemy gets low damage or, you press at full intensity (a little less of full bar) and the guy just flyes away with less teeth.

*While between 1-10 hits you can press RMB
a) This would make a 2 or 3 stage sequence melee that is very hard to imagine....:p...BUT, less arrows interacting pleaaase.
 
Lost in space
Banned
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
2,497
Best answers
0
phew, gotta stretch the hands for this one...

Posted by Grega:
I told this to kong allready. But if advanced melee is the same as simple melee with an animation sequence then its pointless to have it in.
the main point behind this suggestion IS to be the same as basic melee but advanced, if that makes sense. the problem with advanced melee is it will ALWAYS be useless when compared to basic, but the team is so adamant about keeping advanced melee in that we are compromising on it.

Posted by Grega:
The idea is nice. But how about making it possible to block or maby even counter it from within the sequence.
yeah i was trying to figure out how to do that without making it slow or render it completely useless. but i was thinking that if your holding block when he uses advanced your character will auto parry the first attack, thus breaking the entire thing up.

Posted by Rocky87:
I think thats critical, I'll be hated for saying this (I think) but what annoys most new players is the inability to do anything when being smashed around by chained basic melee hits, and to reference wrestling games (I know its not really the same) all moves have a way for an opponent to counter or at least interupt the move/combo.
unfortunately thats the one thing that CANNOT be changed under any circumstances. whats needed is an ingame program that teaches the noobs how to use stuff. that inability to do stuff is what makes the game interesting as you continue to develop at it. its a challenge, but in the game now the noobs dont know what too do or whats possible in this game so they just give up.

you scored a hit on your opponent, that cant be taken away just because you want noobs to have a small chance that wont even effect the outcome of a fight.

Posted by Grega:
The originall idea of this thread is nice but it needs to be fited out with a means of counter so it doesnt turn out as poverpowered as simple melee is right now. On that note simple melee allso needs to be edited to make it harder to pull off multiple hits or maby even the posibility to block the hits while you are in blowback mode.
thats actually what i was basing the idea off, we were told the knock-back ratio was being changed to increase after every attack AND attacks would do less damage. simple melee is not over-powered, in general. the damage you can do with basic melee just needs to be SEVERELY toned down. also the ground-roll exploits (which shouldve been gone after 1.2.1) do ridiculous ammounts of damage.

the team did an excellent job of balancing the game. the transformations are probably gonna undo it anyway. but i can guarantee you this wont do much to unbalance it.

Posted by [email protected]:
well thats cool but I think some things are missing. How about:

Swoop to the enemy
-Normal puch and kick 1-10 hits:

*While between 1-10 hits you can press LMB
a) When you press LMB you char starts charging an intensity bar corresponding to the intensity of a smash attack, that once that gets full its an oportunity lost.
b) When you press the intensity bar you must choose very quiclky the direction of that smash attack before it gets full and lost.
c) The intensity bar gets full like in 1 second so, either you press the bar very quickly at low intensity and the enemy gets low damage or, you press at full intensity (a little less of full bar) and the guy just flyes away with less teeth.

*While between 1-10 hits you can press RMB
a) This would make a 2 or 3 stage sequence melee that is very hard to imagine.......BUT, less arrows interacting pleaaase.
well that sounds exactly like advanced melee is now...

btw, there will be no ****in arrows in this idea of mine. **** arrows.

anyway, more comments. maybe something can be made out of this crap.

EDIT:had to get something up for when 2 people use advanced melee at the same time or basic and advanced at the same time.
CLASHING:

when 2 players hit each other with advanced melee it will NOT work how it is now. infact it wont even be interactive. what happens is that the 2 characters go into a quick melee frenzy then break apart. NOT blast apart. more like they vaulted themselves back.

basic vrs advanced clash. its almost like a slow-mo thing. the one using advanced parries the one using basic, in a matrix-like block. they both continue on their paths, past one another.

of course basic and basic is about the same as it is now, only instead of them hitting each other how about they do the fist against fist hit and immediately spring back like in the show? that way the battle doesnt slow down while you wait for each other to recover.

BLOCK: (this is basically just eye candy)
i was thinking that maybe block can be a parody instead of just a smash against the arms? it senses the attacks and reacts according to whats coming your way. if its an energy attack, youll grab it and immediately struggle. if its an enemies basic punch, you just parry it and both you and your enemy are face to face. btw, a parry is when you slap an attack away, if you dont know.
 
King of the Hello Kitty Fanclub
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
1,675
Best answers
0
Posted by Rocky87:
unfortunately thats the one thing that CANNOT be changed under any circumstances. whats needed is an ingame program that teaches the noobs how to use stuff. that inability to do stuff is what makes the game interesting as you continue to develop at it. its a challenge, but in the game now the noobs dont know what too do or whats possible in this game so they just give up.

you scored a hit on your opponent, that cant be taken away just because you want noobs to have a small chance that wont even effect the outcome of a fight.
I don't really believe that a tutorial will fix the noobs to become pro's. Like anything you needs practice to become good. Completing a tutorial, even a really well developed interactive one, can only semi-prepare you for playing against a real person. It's the practicing that new players can't do. Bots can only help so much and once you get into the real players you get smashed.

I personally don't find the "inability to do stuff" the interesting bit, in fact that's the bit that I dislike the most. In general, an even contest between people of similar skill is always more interesting than getting your ass kicked by a guy who plays too much, or kicking the ass of a guy who hasn't played enough. The last bit of your first paragraph is right though. The new players *don't* know what is possible so they give up early.

Anyway, you're right by connecting with a swoop you *did* score a hit and that deserves some kind of damage. I'm just thinking that inbetween each phase you have a chance to counter the next phase. Some sort of timed combination of keys (I dunno haven't put much thought into it) it'd be more of an advanced thing, not something pro vs. noob.
 
Beta Tester Squad
โœ”๏ธ HL Verified
๐Ÿš‚ Steam Linked
๐Ÿ’ป Oldtimer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Best answers
0
my Second Ideea about the Advance melee is
Swoop into an enemy and you will do a stun to the enemy for like 3 seconds
during this you can press LMB (left mouse buton),and you will start a combo of hits no arrorws just hits,the small combo of hits(during this combo you will have a small aim so that you wont miss your target)that end evry 2.5 or 3 sec witch will deal some dmg(you could stop the advance melee anytime by presing simple melee buton RMB to send the enemy flying)after the combo it's done you will not be able to attack for 1 or half of a sec to start a new combo,during this time if the defender's stun it's off you can counter attack his combo , by presing LMB , the counter will change the attacker in defencer.During the advance melee you can still stun your oponet by presing double click on LMB and a arrow direction , the arrow will appear to the other guy for like half of a sec and if he dosent get the arrow he will be stuned for an other 3 sec,(remeber during anytime in the advance melee you could stop and change your tactic like you stun your oponet and then you can fast charge a generic beam and blast him fast)but if you get the arrow right from his stun you will do a counter stun for 3 sec.Blocking works anytime during advance melee, if you block his swoop stun hit you can start your own combo , but if he swoop and has turbo on it will break your block .Turbo during advance melee will encress the speed of your attack and will add some more dmg (because of turbo nothing special) during advance melee you can teleport with LMB press and it will teleport behind the enemy.Advance melee will last as long as you have stamina.Stamina will be drain druing advance melee.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top