A Friendly complaint to ESF

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Lost in space
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I think it's nice that their "is" progress, but I'm noticing that all the progress is going into graphics(not that it's a bad thing either). I would really prefer if ESF as a group went into focus on "A melee system that would Define ESF".

I mean, whats the point in beeffing up a game's graphics, if it has no real gameplay :\.. or if a player is going to be flying soo fast he wont even notice it that much until he stops and actually takes a look around, which really isn't what the current esf gameplay encourages. It encourages fast action non stop action while struggling to control your ki, through a ramming system( This is not actual melee).

Some thing I'de like to point out:
- Gound Melee gameplay, WHY is this not in esf? ESF is all about giving a player freedom right? I want the freedom to fight on the ground when necassary.
- Flight Speeds, there could be a variety of flight speeds depending on certain situations, you don't have to travel @ the speed of light 100% of the time to have a fun, look @ every other dbz game they all have different speeds u can travel.
-Adjust swoop speeds to suit the game's Level sizes. If we want to beef up the game's graphics, lets give the player the feeling that he's actually in the environment, and not in a box.
-I haven't been hearing much about melee =| from anyone.. except some people who occasionally post some ideas..I say everyone should pitch in and think about a melee system that gives the game these standards, and lets see what we come up with.

- Freedom of movement
- No invincibility
- The ability to beam and fight with punches/elbows/kicks
- Fun and challenge(skill based, not by complete luck or chance)
- Fast, this dbz I think it should require the player to have a good reaction speed to master.
- Strategy, a player should be able to apply strategy and thought into how he/she would attack.
 

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Just because ESF doesn't yield to your standards, doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.
 
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Just because ESF doesn't yield to your standards, doesn't mean there's something wrong with it.
That's probably the only thing that I can say in the thread's regard.
 
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What do you mean esf's melee doesn't "yeild" to my standards..

Are you saying their is already a melee system??



These aren't just my standards, they're are what esf has aimed for..


"the freedom to do what you want, when you want"
 
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i think the team will finish the others features before the melee..
and nothing wrong to improve the graphic of the game (a lot better then dragon ball source IMO), its not a wast of time.

- Gound Melee gameplay, WHY is this not in esf? ESF is all about giving a player freedom right? I want the freedom to fight on the ground when necassary.

I think the 'air melee' will be the same as the 'ground melee'. but i think that there should be something to encourage the players to fight on the ground.

- Flight Speeds, there could be a variety of flight speeds depending on certain situations, you don't have to travel @ the speed of light 100% of the time to have a fun, look @ every other dbz game they all have different speeds u can travel.

agreed, a cool feature and not hard to code.

-Adjust swoop speeds to suit the game's Level sizes. If we want to beef up the game's graphics, lets give the player the feeling that he's actually in the environment, and not in a box.

the speed of the swoop will not make the map bigger.. The size of the map is something that we have to live with.

-I haven't been hearing much about melee =| from anyone.. except some people who occasionally post some ideas..I say everyone should pitch in and think about a melee system that gives the game these standards, and lets see what we come up with.

yeah,, agreed. Correct me if im wrong, but the team do not carry much about our thought or suggestions. so, why post a melee suggestion when in the end the melee system will be defined by the team. I do not think that is a bad thing, who is making the game is the team, so they decide what is good and what isnt.
btw, if the team ask us to post melee ideas i will be happy to post some.
the CORRECT thing to do is the team design a melee system, post it here in the forum and ask the community to improve the system with suggestions.

sorry for my english. :)
 
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i
the CORRECT thing to do is the team design a melee system, post it here in the forum and ask the community to improve the system with suggestions.

sorry for my english. :)
agreed!~ :smile:
 

MC

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Yield meaning give in and I was referring to ESF as a whole.
 
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I agree with the author of this thread: focus should be on gameplay not on eyecandy... I mean, if any of us were interested in eyecandy/graphics we wouldn't be here today now would we? For christ's sake - its hl1. But enough of that and on to the next part of my post:

Esf currently have 2 melee systems (in 1.2).

Simple melee, which requires the player to react fast, control ki, and has a lot of fast movement... It also gives the freedom to fight with different styles/tactics, which is great. - oh yeah it also takes great skill to become good with it - this is where the true gameplay of esf lies (imo).

Esf's second melee system is advanced melee: Sucked.. Sure you can do punches and stuff, but why would you want that? it's completely luck based and totally random. It's slow as hell, boring and it doesn't take any skill at all.

So my melee system suggestion would simply be:

Remove advanced melee, keep the simple melee.


basically I don't care if it isnt like dbz, because thats not why i play this game. Sure it's fun that it has the same characters etc. But what i really like is the fast gameplay of simple melee which is very very addictive. Please keep that in!
 
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Cunning as Zeus
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I don't understand how you can be a beta tester and still be so clueless, Jinx. If you want to know what's going on, just ask. If you want answers go to the devs, go to the head testers. Stop making your ideas and questions a public spectacle. You're not going to get any answers this way, and no one is going to say, "JINX IS RIGHT! LETS SCRAP EVERYTHING AND DO IT HIS WAY!"
 
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simple melee will stay, but a good advanced melee is important because it make the game unique and more fun!
 
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as long as its good (which means: worth using). Currently it's not worth using.

And ofc. most important: It needs to be fun.
 
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I don't understand how you can be a beta tester and still be so clueless, Jinx. If you want to know what's going on, just ask. If you want answers go to the devs, go to the head testers. Stop making your ideas and questions a public spectacle. You're not going to get any answers this way, and no one is going to say, "JINX IS RIGHT! LETS SCRAP EVERYTHING AND DO IT HIS WAY!"
hey.. what he is doing is important..
share of thoughts is one of the most important things, for both parts. the team and the community.
 
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hey.. what he is doing is important..
share of thoughts is one of the most important things, for both parts. the team and the community.
His post doesn't say anything new. I've made similar posts in the past, as have others. This thread is a mish mash of everything we've typed over the years, and he's pretending he can see through the darkness to a better future. As a beta tester, he's privvy to information that most others aren't aware of. Why is it that I have more information regarding the future of ESF in terms of gameplay than he does, despite both of us being testers and having access to the same exact information? It's because he doesn't care. He wants this done his way at any cost, and frankly, I'm tired of it.
 
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simple melee will stay, but a good advanced melee is important because it make the game unique and more fun!
Technically Simple melee is allready what made ESF special. Its what gave ESF the edge back when 1.0 came out.

No dragonball mod has such an easy to use, fast and skill based melee system.

Most DBZ mods are the same. Get close to your oponent. Bash your mouse buttons while facing him and hope you kill him before he kills you.

ESF ended that with a system that was different and less luck based. ESFs simple melee is by far the most advanced melee system presented in a DBZ mod so far.

While it doesnt have the "cool" factor of advanced melee. It is defenetly a revolution in melee combat. Especially on a FPS style engine.


As for advanced melee ideas. Who said we dont take them into considderation. Jinx was not even with the team for a month and hes allready throwing out speculations like this.


The generall formula goes. Someone makes an idea. If its good we look it over. If it isnt good we disregard it.

Same way we disregarded the last melee idea Jinx had with those cyrcle things. And same way we implanted turbo charging, pump PS system and other things.

The sad fact is. When people make suggestions they dont really say much about the suggestion.

Example is:

Ground combat in ESF. (insert talk about why it would be good here)
Thats how suggestions mostly look.

Whats the point of that. You want ground combat. And you are not saying how it should work.

So using Jinx as a good example. You need to present how the system should work. Present the system as you invisioned it. Imagine how it would benefit gameplay. And write it out.

While most of Jinx's melee ideas would not be suited for ESF. He does a superb job of presenting the idea.

But be asured. That if your idea is good we will probably have a meeting discussion about it.

As for the reason why there is no melee design yet. Its simple. We dont have one. The last full melee design was to complicated and wouldnt really be usefull as it restricted players.
 
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Also, it is actually extremely hard to come up with a simple, skill based and fun system that is available to everybody and not just 5 out of 100 players
Especially since we got sooooo many more or less useful suggestions over the years.
 
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Then i'd again like to add: Why fix something that already works? As DJ-ready said it's hard to come up with a simple system that requires skill and is fun... The current simple melee is just that.

But of course some useful and fun additions wouldn't be complained about, but I simply don't know what they should be.
 
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its extremely hard because you guys will swat away anything thats even slightly over the limit of what you guys consider "add-able"

excellent idea's always seem to be (or used to be) thrown out because they are too radical in this mod. being a commoner i dont know for sure, but over the past 4-5 years ive been here all the GREAT ideas seem to be tossed. its why i usually hesitate to make my better ideas. same with the others.
 
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its extremely hard because you guys will swat away anything thats even slightly over the limit of what you guys consider "add-able"

excellent idea's always seem to be (or used to be) thrown out because they are too radical in this mod. being a commoner i dont know for sure, but over the past 4-5 years ive been here all the GREAT ideas seem to be tossed. its why i usually hesitate to make my better ideas. same with the others.
Link me to the ideas/threads/posts and I'll take a look at them.
 
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On the bright side .. we're working on improving simple melee right now.
I won't go into details but we're somewhat back to the basics and ESF is finally fun to play again
 
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Nixanthros: LOL.. yeah! hes a beta tester.. i dont know why they create treads like this! but Jinx must have a reason for it.

grega: Yeah! you are right! the simple melee of ESF is more complex than the melee from the other mods! and much more fun!
and im really happy to know that the team talk about the community ideas!
and it was not Jinx who say this.. i thought about it myself.. and its great to know taht im wrong :D

DJ: i used to be a game developer and i know that create a system is hard.. the best thing to do is what i said in my previous post. The team came up with a concept of the melee, so the community can share opinions to improve it.

the best for everyone
 
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