A Few 'DBZish' Suggestions

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Even though I just registered today, I have been playing ESF for well over a year, and after watching the series today I thought of a few suggestions.

Not sure if you will go for these, but based on DBZ evidence from the series this is how it 'should' work. Gameplay sakes, you might think differently.

1.3 Suggestions

-Beams should be quicker with the higher PL level you have.

Examples of this are ALL throughout DBZ, especially apparent in the Frieza Saga. Remember when Frieza said to goku during the faceoff on namek 'How could he dodge at this range????' Goku could have dodged it because of his pl, Krillin would have been toast for example. Hence the higher the PL, the faster you release your energy.

-Powering UP

I think powering up should decrease your over-all energy. After all in DBZ when you power up your using your energy for a tranformation or for speed or to release an energy attack. Its simply logical.

-Flying

Double tapping forward should keep me flying forward as long as I hold the button. Characters in DBZ don't have to change directions during flight to maintain constant flight. ;)

-Flying And Using Beams

Numerous times in DBZ this has happened. Vegeta attacking cell after Trunks died... or vegeta attacking Recoome as he chased him.

-Teleportation

In 1.2.3 When your phasing you can't phase through another player behind him.

-Goku's Spirit Bomb

Ok...... the model for Goku's spirit bomb is SMALL. In DBZ it was always HUGE. I understand the need for balanced gameplay, and if it was huge and powerful everyone in the game would be using Goku all the time. But in DBZ it was huge and powerful, you could still make it huge and powerful, but at an extreme cost to PL. What I am saying is that if you were regular goku, released the spirit bomb against a player with a larger pl, it does very little damage to them if they handle it right of course, however hitting a person with a lower pl it does extreme damage. Now if the lower PL player phases out or makes it away and manages to counterattack, Goku (with the extreme pl loss) will be at a disadvantage for just launching it. Consider his overall attributes diminished. This could apply to all special beams actually. *Edit* Before you say it, I realize splash damage as well. Splash should be removed or dimished greatly.

-Health

Most battles in DBZ take a long time to go through especially if your close in PL. Health is way too low for the game for all characters. Its more of a skirmish than a battle.

-Blocking

The effort of a block should also decrease your overall PL. This only makes sense. In the series its also obviously apparent.

-Cell's Melee (With Tail)

He needs to use his tail BADLY. If you notice in DBZ cell has an advantage in his basic form when melee'ing at a PL his own level. His tail is extremely sharp and deadly, therefor he should have a melee bonus somehow in basic combat. He frequently went on the attack with his tail in the series as well.

-Transformations

I think these need to be accurate and more added honestly. I am not talking about the obvious ssj2 or ssj3 or anything like that. Im talking about adding realistic transformations according to the series. Obviously however this would hinder gameplay greatly, but you also have to think that no matter a characters true limitations in the series, you can surpass them in game with extra transformations. Hard to explain the concept really, but in theory it could work. For example make the transformations of Frieza realistic, however add bonus' after his final form (coming in forms of continued powerups that increase his PL) to make him able to fight a ssj3 for example for gameplay sakes.

-Captain Ginyu (Body Swap?)

Would be very cool if this was somehow added. Would complete unbalance the game possibly. However if you were to somehow manage this (God knows coding it would be a *****) you could make him lose extreme PL for doing it and rightly so. In the series depending on who he swapped with, he could barely fight in their body, even goku.

-Dendee

Please add Dendee with healing powers. =) I don't know anybody in the right mind who would play dendee, unless it was a team battle and you needed a healer. Still would be cool to have.

These are just a few off the top of my head, hope someone might actually read this.

Thanks for your time.
 
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-Beams should be quicker with the higher PL level you have.
Unbalanced & makes it easier to spam the server.
Useless, as then he would be rushing around to heal everyone witch is just stupid. The point of a fight is to fight, till the end.
 
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i like the one where you can fire beams while swooping (ki blasts and generic beams only).
 
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Flying idea = Thumbs up
Flying while shooting beams/ki blasts = Thumbs up
Teleportation = Thumbs up
Health = Neutral Thumb. It would be pretty cool if fights lasted longer than the usual 10-30 seconds, but how long is too long?

I like the ideas mentioned ^. We can do without the rest.
 

Gon

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First off the Goku's spirit bomb is big enough, and why would it cost PL to use? Goku doesn't use his power, he uses the life around him to gather energy.

Cell's tail?.. He loses his tail at Perfect form. Also, Frieza has a tail also, is that supposed to give him an advantage as well? I think Cell is already too strong, so enough said.

As for the speed of the beams, that really makes no sense. It's all reaction time soley based on the person him/herself. The faster you are, it's really based on your skills, not the game.

Health.
The reason why the battles take so long, is because each of the characters are blocking, dodging at the same time. If you want a long fight, just go into adv melee. That should kill alot of time..

Dendee plays NO ROLE whatsoever in DBZ. He doesn't even fight, what are the programmers going to give Dendee? Special beam cannon? If Dendee is just going to heal, that's pretty useless.

Overall
I think the flying suggestions are good.
 
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IcyVoid1 said:
-Beams should be quicker with the higher PL level you have.

Its a great idea and all... but it'd be really unbalanced, beams are already too overpowered, 1.3 will change that though.

-Powering UP

Already going to be in, to an extent, basically you can charge up your turbo.

-Flying

The reason its like that is because it could get rediculous if there was no limit, i mean, when somebody swoops, its already hard enough to hit them, if they could do it indefinately (their ki as a limit) it'd make fights really really long and drawn out. Im sure somebody else can explain it better, but overall, its there for a reason.

-Flying And Using Beams

would make generic beams whored even more than currently, plus as ive stated beams are already quite overpowered, it also adds to the characteristics of different beams.

-Teleportation

you can teleport behind them if you're good enough, teleport just to the left or right to them tap left/right and teleport again, if you practice enough its possible. Plus if you could just press a button and it did it for you, everyone would abuse it.

-Goku's Spirit Bomb

You stated yourself the reason it shouldnt be any bigger. Balance. There shouldnt be any "i win" attacks.

-Health

I kinda agree, however I think its a good amount on most public servers, basically because you can kill the noobs quickly, however pro's can keep their health for a significant time.

-Blocking

I dont get your reasoning. You already loose 1hp for every basic melee blocked, i think that's fine.

-Cell's Melee (With Tail)

hmmmm i dont think it should do more damage, but it would be nice to see it in some animations in 1.3

-Transformations

Read the 1.3 outline... thats all i can say

-Captain Ginyu (Body Swap?)

It shall be included, but i cant tell you how it works or how its balanced D: but it is genious.

-Dendee

dendee/mr. satan will be in the "capture the dragonballs" mode, read the 1.3 design documents ;)

answered them all in the quote D:
 
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tonythetiger123 said:
i like the one where you can fire beams while swooping (ki blasts and generic beams only).
lower beam damage and then it can be used for flight ;]
 
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Gon said:
First off the Goku's spirit bomb is big enough, and why would it cost PL to use? Goku doesn't use his power, he uses the life around him to gather energy.

Cell's tail?.. He loses his tail at Perfect form. Also, Frieza has a tail also, is that supposed to give him an advantage as well? I think Cell is already too strong, so enough said.

As for the speed of the beams, that really makes no sense. It's all reaction time soley based on the person him/herself. The faster you are, it's really based on your skills, not the game.

Health.
The reason why the battles take so long, is because each of the characters are blocking, dodging at the same time. If you want a long fight, just go into adv melee. That should kill alot of time..

Dendee plays NO ROLE whatsoever in DBZ. He doesn't even fight, what are the programmers going to give Dendee? Special beam cannon? If Dendee is just going to heal, that's pretty useless.

Overall
I think the flying suggestions are good.
'First off' you don't need to get an attitude with me on the internet 'enough said'

Oh and it doesn't take any energy to hold or manipulate a huge spirit bomb? Are you kidding me? Did you not see the struggle him and kid buu had with the spirit bomb?

Cells Tail? Like I said if you pay close attention cell has a melee advantage over anyone in the series in his ORIGINAL form. Its just pure fact, go watch the series again if you don't believe me, they put plenty of hidden emphasis on it. Would it be fair for cell? NO. Would it be accurate to DBZ? YES.

Beam speed. Again clearly in dbz the stronger you get, the faster your beam release according to the series. It only makes sense for it to work this way in a game. Do you REALLY REALLY think lets say someone like Recoome would be able to dodge a blast from a ssj3 goku? Point made.

Health? Hell DBZ battles last episodes. Hours... lol. This game last a minute or 2 at the tops. It should at least last come on... 10....

Dendee had a huge role in DBZ. I don't know what your talking about. Have you ever played class based games? Where you can be a sniper or perhaps a demolition expert? SAME CONCEPT except with a healer.

Sorry to be so rash with this post, but you really REALLY need to learn how to address someone properly, even over the internet.
 
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IcyVoid1 said:
Sorry to be so rash with this post, but you really REALLY need to learn how to address someone properly, even over the internet.
Lead by example, don't point out someone's misgivings and then emulate them yourself, "Point made."

Your suggestions just don't work for gameplay balance. They're accurate to the show, but the writers can balance or tilt combat however they want it drawn out for drama or humor. The stronger a person was in DBZ the less likely they were to do anything but stand and taunt, so should we code in a system where when you get too powerful you have to fight your ego to launch an attack? Some of your ideas don't seem thought out either.

-Blocking

The effort of a block should also decrease your overall PL. This only makes sense. In the series its also obviously apparent.
-Transformations

Hard to explain the concept really, but in theory it could work.
"This only makes sense." Why? It hurts when they block an attack. On the series their power level dropped as they took damage, but if we did that it would just lean in favor of whoever got the first hit at any given time. If you punish people for successfully blocking there'd be no reason why anyone would want to use the feature. You didn't even explain your transformation concept, and as for 'realistic' transformations I can't see how you'd balance Buu's transformations with Frieza's since you don't have enough raw PL data to go off of to say how much more powerful they got as they went along.

Cell's tail might get some animations in 1.3 but I don't see him getting any special tail related powers any time soon. I think other people here have covered the rest for me, so I'll stop here. I don't think they're bad ideas, I think they'd damage gameplay. A lot of people play competatively. They're not just playing because of how close the show is to DBZ, but because of how difficult it is to master and how 'relatively' balanced it is for different characters.
 
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Balance > Accuracy
To a degree, that is true.
While your suggestions may make the game more "DBZish," they also make it so that anyone choosing Goku or Buu are extremely overpowered, just because in DBZ they are stronger than everyone else.
So you also lose some variety. People might only go for Goku and launch gigantic Spirit Bombs that kill the whole map.
 
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i like the idea of shooting a gen beam or ki blast under swooping... but if its going to be in... the damage of the gen beam and ki blast should be less strong under swooping... or you need to make it so only a few players can use it (example vegeta, since he used it) but yea would be cool and most balanced if every1 could do it

tough it has a bad side.. a very bad one... beamspammers who are already very anoying.... and alway's run as soon as you try to melee them... might get even harder to catch becaus as we all know.. when you swoop and you get a hit by a beam or ki blast you stop swooping.. so that means if you can launch ki blast or gen beams under swooping beamspammers may use it to run away..
 
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You made a nice suggestion by adding it only to certain players like vegeta is a good one,but then again like you said, they might use this to escape by reverse swooping(backwards while facing forward).

Maybe it has like a limit, 6 ki blasts and 2 gen beams per every 10 second swoop or something, but some people might not like time limits like that.
 
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Having only certain characters being able to fire ki blasts while swooping would be totally unbalanced and unfair.

Beam damage should be reduced overall, so that way swooping while shooting ki blasts and generic beams can be made fair. Big beams, like kamehameha, can not be fired or charged while swooping. The pace of esf would be much faster if you wouldn't have to stop completely to fire a small blast.
 

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IcyVoid1 said:
'First off' you don't need to get an attitude with me on the internet 'enough said'

Oh and it doesn't take any energy to hold or manipulate a huge spirit bomb? Are you kidding me? Did you not see the struggle him and kid buu had with the spirit bomb?

Cells Tail? Like I said if you pay close attention cell has a melee advantage over anyone in the series in his ORIGINAL form. Its just pure fact, go watch the series again if you don't believe me, they put plenty of hidden emphasis on it. Would it be fair for cell? NO. Would it be accurate to DBZ? YES.

Beam speed. Again clearly in dbz the stronger you get, the faster your beam release according to the series. It only makes sense for it to work this way in a game. Do you REALLY REALLY think lets say someone like Recoome would be able to dodge a blast from a ssj3 goku? Point made.

Health? Hell DBZ battles last episodes. Hours... lol. This game last a minute or 2 at the tops. It should at least last come on... 10....

Dendee had a huge role in DBZ. I don't know what your talking about. Have you ever played class based games? Where you can be a sniper or perhaps a demolition expert? SAME CONCEPT except with a healer.

Sorry to be so rash with this post, but you really REALLY need to learn how to address someone properly, even over the internet.

Wow, you really make me sound like a prick, but I wasn't giving you an attitude.
 

nge

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I'd like to take the time to point out one thing.

Going on the time a fight took is plain silly. You've got no way to accurately judge that. The fight between freiza and goku which lasted a billion episodes was under 5 min, after the deathball was thrown.

Secondly, keeping things accurate to the show doesn't lead to a fun mod, at all. No one wants to play "Buu/Goku wars with other guys selectable but not ever used forces" (BGWWOGSBNEUF for short.) If the game were kept true to the show, they'd have a ton of descrepentcies to add into the game as features, which would be rather frustraiting.

A bigger spirit bomb? The thing is a nuke already for most map sizes. It uses your PL and other's average PL to judge the explosian size, and it's always freakin huge. What does making it bigger do- make it easier to spam? Or just look real cool and have an explosion that makes no sense in terms of the size of the sprite? Either way it's silly.

I don't mean to insult your skill, but watch good players fight. Each life can last anywhere from 30 seconds to 15 min depending on how they're fighting and performing. I promise you I can go into nearly any pub myself and not die for hours if I really want to vs the average players in this game, and I can garuntee I'm not the only one with these capibilities. Just get better and you'll live longer, problem solved.

Let me ask you something. Did you realize the ki blast is set at the fastest possible non-hitscan speed for these entities? Instead of trying to change the fact that it's quite difficult to shoot beams at people and just hit them because they were under your crosshair for a fifth of a second, take the time to track them and earn the damage.

I'm not even going to address all your suggestions individually. They're made in a manner that suggests they ought to be changed because it would make the game easier for you to play.

These don't add anything, they make the game spammy and boring. Half the thrill of ESF is taking a fragile being, and making it deal as much damage and take as little as effciently as possible. Knowing you killed someone in five seconds when they have the exact same opportunity to do so to you shows what you're capible of. How's it fun to smack people around for half an hour at a low level? At a high level a single life is going to take ages, and at a low level you're just going to beat up a person you were already going to beat for a much longer time.

If you ask me, the game already feels close to the show in the most importent sense. A "stronger" player will be able to take out many, many players of a lower level with little effort because of skill, not because the charceter is just unfair.
 

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