well, just so you know the top image is basically how its done for the most part, you cant really see the hands in my screenshots, so hard to tell how the flow is on them. Those images are actually 2 of many i looked at for hand refs =p, ive been around the net, i can tell you ive seen most of what youll prob link me for refs. when i try for a new poly flow or higher poly stuff I go through and look at tons of refs to see how others made them to get the best ideas on how to make the flow work right =x