A GREAT melee system Idea

[MC]

Yes finally an excuse to avoid crituqing his IDEA SUCCES @ LAST.. ( This is the equivilant of your post)

What the hell are you talking about? And if it's not too much to ask of you, can you please use proper grammar and punctuation?

 

[Zeonix]

Yes finally an excuse to avoid crituqing his IDEA SUCCES @ LAST.. ( This is the equivilant of your post)

Either you've completely ignored every single one of my posts directed at your system, or you just pass over any post that doesn't have the phrase, "That is fantastic, Jinx!" Either way, you're being childish.

 

[VideoJinx]

Either you've completely ignored every single one of my posts directed at your system, or you just pass over any post that doesn't have the phrase, "That is fantastic, Jinx!" Either way, you're being childish.

I have nothing more i can come up with... so look @ the little that ive posted ( This is the equivalent of your post )

 

[Zeonix]

I'm a silly goose (this is the equivalent of your post).

....

 

[VideoJinx]

I'm a silly goose (this is the equivalent of your post).

I'm in a pinch and he's got me, i'll attempt to change to his tactics to disregard critiqueing his ideas all together ( this is the equivilanet of your post )

 

[Zeonix]

Either you've completely ignored every single one of my posts directed at your system, or you just pass over any post that doesn't have the phrase, "That is fantastic, Jinx!" Either way, you're being childish.

You haven't denied it, so I'll assume I was right. Get back to me when you read all of my posts. We'll move forward from there.

 

[kam!]

Alright to get back on topic:

Jinx your "GREAT" system is randomness incarnate. It has nothing to do with skill, no tactics involved.
If you can't control where your cursor is intentionally, there's no way to plan attacks or whatsoever.
You won't even have a chance to watch the "flashy" "DBZish" fight, because you'd have to stare at the
systems hud and your cursor. It's not like DDR, it's worse, you have no control if it shakes randomly.

 

[VideoJinx]

You haven't denied it, so I'll assume I was right. Get back to me when you read all of my posts. We'll move forward from there.

I cant swallow my pride( This is the equivilant of your postz)

Alright to get back on topic:

Jinx your "GREAT" system is randomness incarnate. It has nothing to do with skill, no tactics involved.
If you can't control where your cursor is intentionally, there's no way to plan attacks or whatsoever.
You won't even have a chance to watch the "flashy" "DBZish" fight, because you'd have to stare at the
systems hud and your cursor. It's not like DDR, it's worse, you have no control if it shakes randomly.

Kams thank you THANK YOU.

I see, from what I'm getting I see that people are wanting a fighting system with distinctive controllable moves. Something like Budokai/Tenchaichi.. but I'm not sure that sort of system would suit esf to be honest because it requires a lockon and extra buttons.. If there were no extra buttons then the amount of moves would be limited and repetitive.

I do agree that you cant exactly "control" which type of attack you do, but I have to point out that you are able to control the "Strength of each attack"(Strong,Medium, Weak). The images I drew are a representation of what the interfaces could look like.. When ingame they'de be hollow + transparent so you would be able to view the fighting very clearly.

You can control how the mouse shakes to a degree, but i must also say again... that crosshair(Mouse) only shakes in "Random Directions".

The attacker determines the strength of the Defender's Mouse shake.


One thing i forgot to add is.. that when a Defender counters the attacker's attacks.. the Attacker's mouse shake becomes stronger(leading to more misses and opportunity.)

Thank Kam for a constructive crit

 

[Snowm@n]

The only way advanced melee can work, is to make total movement freedom. you have to make your own kicks and punches while you dodge your oponent's atacks. It should be like a small area where the movements triplicate their speed and you can teleport and kick and punch and kick again and charge a big punch and then teleport right to the face of the enemy and deliver him that charged punch and he fully recovers and teleports to your back and kicks you, and there you go.... that way you can taste the action. Otherwise wont work in my opinion...

too hard for noobs? they should practice with bots like i did in cs.

 

[VideoJinx]

I'm not sure if this post was for my idea..

My idea isn't like adv melee at all, but movement and teleporting would feel more like the basic melee style of fighting... and not a close combat system

In my opinon, my idea of melee was added in.. i think it would be nice if you could engage with this type of melee at anytime you could engage basic melee..

with this exceptions..

If Basic melee headons with Close Combat Melee both players would take damage before splitting apart, and the close combat would not engage.


editz.. whatever the system is it should nearly even the playing field for skilled players and new players in my opinion.. give them something thats not annoying.. and can be worked with until they're ready to step up into more broad tactics

 

[KYnetiK]

Fighting is not random. It shouldnt be a struggle to launch the attack you want when you want it.The idea is to fight the other player, not the mouse. This just seems like an absolute waste of animation time to me.
This is better suited as a head-on system, not an advanced melee system. This idea has as much depth as Paris Hilton. I begin to wonder whether you've even bothered to read the full outlines for 1.3 melee at all. You can have an instense, controlled variety of simple techniques and still keep pressure on a good player. Even budokai tenkaichi 3 has an incredible amount of strategy of how to attack and defend with its variety of simple SUBsystems. All you seem to do is pull a single system from another game and base an entire mode around it. Designing games isn't as simple as ripping concepts from other games and making presumptious conclusions about the resulting gameplay based on multiplying thrill factors.
Such absolutism of your idea only appears to serve a single ego, and not the idea nor the game itself. You have to accept that your idea may not be some God-given epiphany and just -might- actually contain a flaw

 

[VideoJinx]

I just thought of a way for Beams to be added within this close combat system.

the Zones ( Strong, Medium, and Weak), Ki burn(for each attack) and mouse shaking difficulty/speed can change when the attacker OR defender changes His/Her weapon to attack with..

So if I choose a ki blasts to attack with, my ki burn per attack will increase and the speed that I attack with slow down to a "beam throwing speed". The Defender could dodge or counter( Reflect the beams back into my face).

The Strong/Medium/Weak Zones could be change would determine how many i throw per attack.

Lets say I had enough ki for a gen ball, if i had enough ki i could attempt to use it but at a higher ki burn rate per attack


Bigger attacks like Kameha's/ Spirit Bombs/ Galitgun/ Death ball all these attacks could be added in.. but should require a some sort of "momentum buildup" to perform.

Fighting is not random. It shouldnt be a struggle to launch the attack you want when you want it.The idea is to fight the other player, not the mouse. This just seems like an absolute waste of animation time to me.
This is better suited as a head-on system, not an advanced melee system. This idea has as much depth as Paris Hilton. I begin to wonder whether you've even bothered to read the full outlines for 1.3 melee at all. You can have an instense, controlled variety of simple techniques and still keep pressure on a good player. Even budokai tenkaichi 3 has an incredible amount of strategy of how to attack and defend with its variety of simple SUBsystems. All you seem to do is pull a single system from another game and base an entire mode around it. Designing games isn't as simple as ripping concepts from other games and making presumptious conclusions about the resulting gameplay based on multiplying thrill factors.
Such absolutism of your idea only appears to serve a single ego, and not the idea nor the game itself. You have to accept that your idea may not be some God-given epiphany and just -might- actually contain a flaw

I'm sure their is a very good reason why Budokai isn't *so popular* on the pc.. tho.. where can I checkout the 1.3 melee docs?

 

[KYnetiK]

When did I day budokai was a popular pc game? You keep manipulating things to take a ta stab at people who dont like your idea. I was explaining how fighting engines gain successful gameplay through a hierarchy of mini systems that flow into each other. Im demonstrating that you can give players a seemingly complex choice of combat with simple streamlined inputs (speed countering, headons, perfect charge, sonic sway etc etc)

Also, you can find the 1.3 outlines in a sticky in esf chat http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=54534

 

[Grega]

Well i must admit that i didnt read all the posts. But i get the general idea.

No its not complicated. Yes it would be a ***** to master. Yes it would be anoying to swich betwean camera control and melee with the mouse. And yes i would rather die than have something like this in ESF.

Jinx think FPS/TPS not 2D fighter.

Oh and that melee design probably wont be the one in 1.3

To complex ^^

 

[VideoJinx]

When did I day budokai was a popular pc game? You keep manipulating things to take a ta stab at people who dont like your idea.

Even budokai tenkaichi 3 has an incredible amount of strategy of how to attack and defend with its variety of simple SUBsystems.

wtf are you talking about YOU DID say the words in bold did you not? You need 2 chill out

My point was.. I dont think you can get a Budakai game onto the a computer using a MOUSE and Keyboard and still have the same gameplay.. it would be far FAR too offsetting and because it was designed for a controller

Well i must admit that i didnt read all the posts. But i get the general idea.

No its not complicated. Yes it would be a ***** to master. Yes it would be anoying to swich betwean camera control and melee with the mouse. And yes i would rather die than have something like this in ESF.

Jinx think FPS/TPS not 2D fighter.

Oh and that melee design probably wont be the one in 1.3

To complex ^^

Grega what do you mean by switching between cam control and melee ? I think the cam should just lock onto the player who's engaged in melee with you...

with a similar but cinematic view that's seen in esf 1.2


Fps= first person shooter?, but what's TPS ..
OH!~~~ 3rd person =] nvm yea man thats what i was thinking with this ide a Third person.. this wouldn't be 2d...


it would be close up in your face fighting.. and because the fighting is done with the "Mouse" and the movement controls are FREE for use for more developed in thought "Ideas"

 

[Grega]

I say leave the console games on the console and dont bring ideas from there into ESF.

Console fighter games are all based on 2D fighting. You dont really have full 3D support in them even if you have multi-directional movement. The code of those games is still a 2D fighter. Where ESFs core is Half Life. A FPS with full 3D movement.

Oh and Jinx. I know you are freelance on the team but you are still considered a tester ^^

So mind looking into the beta testers forum and doing what i said in the thread ^^

 

[VideoJinx]

Where at ?? could you link me?? PM ME!~~

FightNight is FPS and TPS btw..

I didn't rip the idea.. but this is what it reminded me of since i've played it before

 

[KYnetiK]

WTF you keep reading into **** like its another language. I was very chilled out until your failure to listen made me feel like Id wasted my time bothering to articulate myself. I endeavor to be polite, however...

Even budokai tenkaichi 3 has an incredible amount of strategy with its variety of simple SUBsystems.

!=

budokai is a popular pc game

Notice the subtle differences in what points the sentences were making? Thats the problem here jinx, you have selective hearing.

I was using Budokai as an example of getting 'apparent' complexity out of something simple. as a design principle, not a blueprint. I wasnt saying "ZMG TURN ESF INTO BUDOKAI!!!!"

It is because of these failures of communication that i begin to thank cigarette companies.

 

[VideoJinx]

Huh??

Budokai is for the ps2, it's popular FOR the ps2...


Yea it has strategy, but it was designed FOR the ps2 controller

Esf is dbz but FOR the pc.. and FOR the mouse/keybaord..

a Systems used in budokai will NOT be good FOR the mouse/keyboard..

that was my pointz.. when i said there is a reason why budokai isn't popular for the pc..

I wasn't bash/lashing out at anyone who disagrees with my idea..

people like zeo tend to say NOOOOOO with little or no explination... If your going to disagree with the idea... explain yourself.. dont kill an animal just because you see one..

Grega I PMed you

 

[KYnetiK]

Ive explained myself several times if you listened.

AGAIN i wasnt saying use budokai features as a blueprint for ESF
and AGAIN i wasnt saying use budokai features as a blueprint for ESF

I was saying it has combat complexity using simple stuff a DESIGN PRINCIPLE that makes it popular, a DESIGN PRINCIPLE i find lacking in your idea, a DESIGN PRINCIPLE already present in the existing 1.3 Outline. For smeg sake!