2 New Kinds Of block

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ok the block that the game currently uses is just a regular block that only deflects the beam without any thought ( a block that would mostly be used at the last moment)

then you have my idea for another kind of block. you hold forward + block and the beam that you deflect goes where you aim.. so you can actually aim the beam that you deflect.( a block you would use if you had the time to think about using it).

and the 2nd block is a counter-block. You hold back + block and when someone swoops into you with either adv melee or basic melee you do a quick-throw the ki cost is the same as 1 tele.. If you did this and didn't have enough ki.. the move could be overpowered by the attacker and the attacker would knock him/her back with a basic melee...( a block you would use wizely or else you'de take dmg).

::: EDIT :::

Good input mcc.. The Block-counter should cost 2-3 telies of used to keep it from being abused... i say 2... also remember that melee isnt your only weapon you can be beamed while blocking...

counter-Block doesn't block beams Only Melee
 
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I like the first suggestion, but the second would cause people to just use back + block all the time, it's cheap if you have the ki. Should take about the cost of 2-3 teleports instead of just one. Probably three would be the best, so it's basically as hard as getting a full throw on someone.
 
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Hrmm after giving it more thought Why not add DIFFERENT Counters ?

I mean this...There could be Differnt Block-counters for each weapon

examples:

Melee block-counter:
While melee is selected if you block-Counter someone, your perform a "quick-throw"

ki-blast counter:
Would cost MORE ki, maybe 3-4 telies..i say 3.... anyways this is how it works..... With the ki blast selected you hold block + back and when the attacker is caught in your counter, the attacker does a punch automaticly. Your character then dodges , Teleports directly above the attacker and does a *critical hit* , sending the attacker down to the ground.... Then your character shoots ki blasts down at the attacker until he's able to get up. No matter how much ki the attacker has he/she cant recover or catch himself before hitting the ground(since it's apart of the counter). *both players can move AFter the attacker gets up *

Generic ball counter:
Ki cost = 4 telies
How it works: with genenric beam selected Hold block+ back and when the attacker is caught in your counter, the attacker does a kick automaticly. Your character ducks while charging a quick gen ball(strong as a fully charged gen ball) then teleports behind the attacker and shoots it into the attackers back. The attacker doesn't explode/vaporize but is instead Pushed at a fast paced by the gen ball Into a wall where the gen ball then exploads(causes dmg) then the explosion smashes him into the wall ( causes dmg). * both players can move After the gen ball is shot since a player cant fly as fast as a gen ball or wont have enough ki to keep up with the gen ball that's pushing the attacker
 
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lol cool ideas. I like counters, its a cool concept. The games "Dead or alive" 2 and 3 on the consoles comes to mind.

$sj Goku said:
Generic ball counter:
Ki cost = 4 telies
How it works: with genenric beam selected Hold block+ back and when the attacker is caught in your counter, the attacker does a kick automaticly. Your character ducks while charging a quick gen ball(strong as a fully charged gen ball) then teleports behind the attacker and shoots it into the attackers back. The attacker doesn't explode/vaporize but is instead Pushed at a fast paced by the gen ball Into a wall where the gen ball then exploads(causes dmg) then the explosion smashes him into the wall ( causes dmg). * both players can move After the gen ball is shot since a player cant fly as fast as a gen ball or wont have enough ki to keep up with the gen ball that's pushing the attacker
haha thats awesome, they did that alot in the show.
 
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$sj Goku said:
Hrmm after giving it more thought Why not add DIFFERENT Counters ?

I mean this...There could be Differnt Block-counters for each weapon

examples:

Melee block-counter:
While melee is selected if you block-Counter someone, your perform a "quick-throw"

ki-blast counter:
Would cost MORE ki, maybe 3-4 telies..i say 3.... anyways this is how it works..... With the ki blast selected you hold block + back and when the attacker is caught in your counter, the attacker does a punch automaticly. Your character then dodges , Teleports directly above the attacker and does a *critical hit* , sending the attacker down to the ground.... Then your character shoots ki blasts down at the attacker until he's able to get up. No matter how much ki the attacker has he/she cant recover or catch himself before hitting the ground(since it's apart of the counter). *both players can move AFter the attacker gets up *

Generic ball counter:
Ki cost = 4 telies
How it works: with genenric beam selected Hold block+ back and when the attacker is caught in your counter, the attacker does a kick automaticly. Your character ducks while charging a quick gen ball(strong as a fully charged gen ball) then teleports behind the attacker and shoots it into the attackers back. The attacker doesn't explode/vaporize but is instead Pushed at a fast paced by the gen ball Into a wall where the gen ball then exploads(causes dmg) then the explosion smashes him into the wall ( causes dmg). * both players can move After the gen ball is shot since a player cant fly as fast as a gen ball or wont have enough ki to keep up with the gen ball that's pushing the attacker

With that you just made a new tactic of gameplay. The ill wait here and counter teh first guy who is dumb enough to attack me with the genball counter. Than quickly recharge and shoot some kiblasts at him when he hits the wall the kiblasts will just hit.

Same goes for the kiblast one. Its a free hit. Atleast make it harder to do or itll be spammed.

Make it so that you have to be holding block and hit back at the exact moment the other guy hits you or something >.> anything taht isnt a free hit for standing round waiting fos someone to attack you.
 
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counter'ing could be a timing thing. You have to do it right when someone is about to hit you, and if you miss they get a free hit.

You can only use the move like once every 1 or 2 seconds? There can be a little animation for it too, like the character grabs the air with both hands.
 
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Grega said:
With that you just made a new tactic of gameplay. The ill wait here and counter teh first guy who is dumb enough to attack me with the genball counter. Than quickly recharge and shoot some kiblasts at him when he hits the wall the kiblasts will just hit.

Same goes for the kiblast one. Its a free hit. Atleast make it harder to do or itll be spammed.

Make it so that you have to be holding block and hit back at the exact moment the other guy hits you or something >.> anything taht isnt a free hit for standing round waiting fos someone to attack you.
Think about it 4 teleport ki cost..
Thats alot of ki...
Besides if someone was to try to abuse it they'de have no ki after attack
Also The person attacking has the option to beam him instead of meleeing him

For what reason you stated this is what i came up with

A half-second time frame for the counter-block and the aim-block(lets you aim where you deflect a beam)

So if you do the move and a beam doesnt hit your or the attacker doesn't touch you in half a second the counter doesn't work and you get hit Even with the beam-counter.
 
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tonythetiger123 said:
counter'ing could be a timing thing. You have to do it right when someone is about to hit you, and if you miss they get a free hit.

You can only use the move like once every 1 or 2 seconds? There can be a little animation for it too, like the character grabs the air with both hands.

The counters i suggest Are animations.. sorry if it was confusing.. The end of each counter i state is when both players are able to move. Which is the end of the animation
 
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my animation is if -> you don't grab anyone, you can see yourself attempting the counter move (grabbing the air).
 
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do you mean for the attacker? as in when the attacker goes for the person using the block-coutner
 
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yea, you (the attacker) can see a little animation that shows yourself "trying" to counter. Just trying to add something to the counter idea.
 
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Grega said:
With that you just made a new tactic of gameplay. The ill wait here and counter teh first guy who is dumb enough to attack me with the genball counter. Than quickly recharge and shoot some kiblasts at him when he hits the wall the kiblasts will just hit.

Same goes for the kiblast one. Its a free hit. Atleast make it harder to do or itll be spammed.
I told him the same thing on MSN, Grega ^_^.
 
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Jinx, don't use the "BUT THEY WONT HAVE ANY KI LEFT AFTER THEY COUNTER YOU!" excuse. As soon as the person counters, they'll have time to charge up (unless your opponent is somehow able to do a insta-recover).

I like the suggestion about being able to aim where you deflect beams and projecticles.
 
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Zeonix said:
Jinx, don't use the "BUT THEY WONT HAVE ANY KI LEFT AFTER THEY COUNTER YOU!" excuse. As soon as the person counters, they'll have time to charge up (unless your opponent is somehow able to do a insta-recover).

I like the suggestion about being able to aim where you deflect beams and projecticles.
During the animations.. both players cant move... Neither can power up until the animation is complete and yes the distance between both players gives the counter spammer enough time to recharge.....

so lets see.. how to solve this problem..... Hrm... Here is what i came up with..


1) Leave it... its fine if your dumb enough to try an melee him instead of beam him its your fault.. Besides after the counter someone else could take advantage of his weakness

2)Add a Counter Bar.. After 2 Counters in a row The Bar depletes(empties)
and it takes 1 full minute for the bar to charge back up completely.

Also If #2 was added I think they shouldn't make it like the hp and sp bars..

it should apear in the spot where the beam struggle bar apears. Only The Counter bar should have a slight change. After A counter is done the Counter-Bar should fade in and deplete half way then slowly begin to recharge as the bar fades away.
This way after you use the Counter-block 2 times and your bar is nearly empty you wont know when your able to use the counter again Unless you count to 30 or you wait for a while.. and it will make you a bit nervious to use it again for a while
 
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Or we can prevent ESF from becoming more of a waiting game that it already is.
 
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Seriously... i think People need to stop thinking in the 1.1 / 1.2 box.. and think in the 1.3 world.. that has a variety of moves and adds alot of tacticts to the game...

::::EDIT
I mean seriously >.> Think about the show... They did alot of staring down and they constantly/carefully watched their opponent who had alot of trix up their sleave... But the fighting was very intense...
Adding a counter wouldnt SLow the pace of the game at all.. infact i think it would make you Concentrate on what you opponent is trying to do

:::::END OF EDIT

The way the game is now... who ever can respond faster and angle correctly most of the time wins...

I think 1.3 shouldnt be that way it should be who ever can respond faster , angle correctly, watches/thinks about what there opponent COULD do, and uses a certain moves based on what their enemy decides to fight with

I believe its a good addin....

and another addin i think the should have is *special Attacks* a combination of hits like My idea for counters except they are attacks instead of counters
 
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Your counter system makes esf a waiting game. People look for ways to be as cheap as possible, because they want to win. They'll just stand still waiting to counter you.

ESF shouldn't be about who can respond faster, although it will always play a role in the game. Why do I think this? Hardware. I, for one, am unable to do anything quickly or even hold down 3 keys without the keyboard wanting to explode.

Sure, watching and thinking should be involved (and it always has been...except for the alphas I guess). But the game should also be about action. Fast paced action. I hate when I'm fighting someone and then they just beam jump across the map and wait. And wait. And wait. I have to go to them, because they won't come to me. It gets retardedly boring after a while.

Basically, your entire 3rd paragraph is already what ESF is. Its about out-thinking and out-manuevering your opponent, although melee has pretty much become 2 air hits, 1 ground hit, and and a few gen balls followed by a beam jump.
 
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Seriously.. who is going to sit there and try to counter every person that comes there way... Sure they MIGHT get 1 or 2 counters... But im sure they will either mess up because of the .5 second Counter timeframe Or some nub will see them standing there and will beam him/her. Also dont forget after each counter They have very little ki left And they can only pull of a maximum of 2 back to back and they STILL have to powerup between those 2 to get some ki back... then they have to wait 30 seconds for their Counter Bar to fill up half way
 
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$sj Goku said:
::::EDIT
I mean seriously >.> Think about the show... They did alot of staring down and they constantly/carefully watched their opponent who had alot of trix up their sleave... But the fighting was very intense...
Adding a counter wouldnt SLow the pace of the game at all.. infact i think it would make you Concentrate on what you opponent is trying to do

I think 1.3 shouldnt be that way it should be who ever can respond faster , angle correctly, watches/thinks about what there opponent COULD do, and uses a certain moves based on what their enemy decides to fight with
The show was fast paced. ESF isn't. Again, most of the time one person is getting triple punched to the ground which is then followed by a gen beam. Everyone does it.

Do you really think people don't think about what they're going to do? As for the latter part, people choose different attacks in different situations. If someone likes to wait, I'll shoot gen beams at them until they assume a more aggressive strategy (courtesy of NGE -_o). If someone is super aggressive, I'll switch to a defensive strategy. You're supposed to adapt.

In regards to your suggestion: When I think countering, I think DoA. Watch some video clips or something from the latest game and check it out. The problem with countering is two-fold:

1) Being countered over and over sucks donkey balls. Its incredibly annoying.
2) To combat this annoyance, you put in delays and pretty much crippled the system in an attempt to "balance" it.

My suggestion is to either go all the way or don't even bother. Here's what I would do. Bam! There's countering ingame. Someone swoops towards you, you kinda move to the side, and you do a quick throw in a direction. While the person is being thrown, you remain in the stance that you threw the guy. You recover .5 seconds before the guy you threw, so you won't have the chance to shoot a gazillion ki blasts or gen balls. Of course this would use tons of ki, blah blah. As Mcc said, it should be the equivalent of 3-4 teleports. I don't know if you want to add damage to the throw or what, but it would add a little depth. Would it be annoying? Yes. But not if the quick throw didn't do damage. Since you'd only be throwing the person a short distance, they wouldn't take damage unless you manage to throw them at a wall/ceiling/ground or other player. Aiming at another player would be very hard because its a quick throw. I don't know how you want to go about initiating the counter.
 
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these counters are more like special moves/combos that are performed outside of advanced melee.

There isn't much depth in the fighting system right now, its just holding down right click the majority of the time. When you have two pros playing, its constant swooping in circles over and over until someone hits the other.

I do agree countering would be a useful tactic. It makes your opponent think twice instead of trying to run into somebody 24/7.

Timing would become more important, because you have to make sure your hit is going to count. There is a bit of a waiting game involved, but its not so bad because there can be a limit on how much counters you can pull off. There was no limit on how often you could counter in DoA, so thats why it may have seemed annoying.
 

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