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Thread: Struggle System - How do you think the 'ball' type attack struggles should work?

  1. #1

    Default Struggle System - How do you think the 'ball' type attack struggles should work?

    So the re-make of the struggle system comes to a near completion, we still got one more thing to worry about. How exactly the ball type attacks such as the spirit bomb, death ball, etc comes into play with the struggle system.

    As it stands right now in the public releases, you can spam(ish) the ball type attacks constantly without having to worry about anything. Either to kill your opponent(s) or let someone else struggle your attack with for example a beam attack. The major problem with this is that once that person is struggling your ball type attack, it leaves the person struggling defenseless. By the time that player has won (if that would be the case) he or she would have 'nearly' depleted his/her stamina/KI which in the end makes it more difficult to fight back.

    The other problem is that when you do win, you have really nothing to win for. Sure, you pushed back the attack successfully until it hits something solid but then what? Your opponent is still alive as he would be able to walk/fly freely around the map outside of the explosion radius.

    The team's current idea is once a ball type attack is fired, it leaves the person in a locking position. Unable to move, until the attack no longer exists in the battlefield. The user however still has the ability to control the attack by moving (controlling) it around which mimics the beam control system.

    We are just curious to see what your opinions are how you think the system should work. So, got any other thoughts? Share your idea! We cannot guarantee it'll be in the game though, but it will give the team some more insight on how the system may work in the future.

    If you like the current *idea* of "fire, cannot move but can control it" system for ball attacks, you are welcome to reply as well to share your kudos for the idea.
    Last edited by Skyrider; Nov 29th, 2017 at 03:51 PM.

  2. #2

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    idk sounds kinda weird, why not have it as a cinematic attack like in the games this way it wont slow gameplay? yet to execute it you need full ki or something like that idk just being locked in position while its moving doesnt sound right and while it may look cool it will hurt the gameplay

  3. #3

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    Why dont you leave it like it is in 1.2.3?

  4. #4

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    If you just hold the block button, you just gets less damage, but you still get damaged
    If you hold the block button and LMB, you enter into a struggle to block it and make disapear
    If you hold the block button and RMB you block it and shoots it back
    The amount of energy you use on the both sides depends on the powerlevel
    The game could get your powerlevels and compare each other to set the amount of energy you waste in the struggle
    Ok... thats my idea

  5. #5

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    Okay guys. The question was on how to solve the problem that the one shooting a big ball attack (genkidama and so on) atm can't loose in a struggle. He can simply fly away and recharge no risk there. He can even spam them. Its NOT about how you loose a struggle but about how encurage struggles against a ball attack. Atm and in previous ESF versions the only thing you gain from blocking or struggling a ball attack is..you're out of KI and defensless.
    To counter that and to make struggles against ball attacks an options it's worth to consider the idea is to make ball attacks similar to beams. Faster as now but only controllable to a small degree and lock the player who fired them in place. They are stronger than most beams so they are still a big hit. BUUUT then it would make more sense to block or struggle them as instead just teleport/fly away because both struggling players can win(damage the other player) or loose.

    AGAIN it's not about HOW to win a struggle but about WHY you should even engage in a struggle against a ball attack

  6. #6

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    in my project a struggle is a big thing which can only happen when the ki bar is full to fill ki br u need to fight opponent "not power up" once full you have to either risk using a power attack aka kameha or choose to transform aka become super saiyan, to do a kameha you first have to engage in combat though if the other person also has full ki it will trigger a beam struggle, in the beam struggle health depletes first to hit 0 losses though person who initiated struggle healths drops 5% slower and depending on the current transformation will also decide health decrease speed, but thats just my way of doing it everyone's different, I do like the look of a free to use kameha but to me when I tested it with testers, its just looks good but it effect game play negatively

  7. #7

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    Maybe make both attacks explode upon contact? What about a cooldown feature to patch the spam issue?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyrider View Post
    So the re-make of the struggle system comes to a near completion, we still got one more thing to worry about. How exactly the ball type attacks such as the spirit bomb, death ball, etc comes into play with the struggle system.

    As it stands right now in the public releases, you can spam(ish) the ball type attacks constantly without having to worry about anything. Either to kill your opponent(s) or let someone else struggle your attack with for example a beam attack. The major problem with this is that once that person is struggling your ball type attack, it leaves the person struggling defenseless. By the time that player has won (if that would be the case) he or she would have 'nearly' depleted his/her stamina/KI which in the end makes it more difficult to fight back.

    The other problem is that when you do win, you have really nothing to win for. Sure, you pushed back the attack successfully until it hits something solid but then what? Your opponent is still alive as he would be able to walk/fly freely around the map outside of the explosion radius.

    The team's current idea is once a ball type attack is fired, it leaves the person in a locking position. Unable to move, until the attack no longer exists in the battlefield. The user however still has the ability to control the attack by moving (controlling) it around which mimics the beam control system.

    We are just curious to see what your opinions are how you think the system should work. So, got any other thoughts? Share your idea! We cannot guarantee it'll be in the game though, but it will give the team some more insight on how the system may work in the future.

    If you like the current *idea* of "fire, cannot move but can control it" system for ball attacks, you are welcome to reply as well to share your kudos for the idea.
    Alright, so .... just my 2 cents here. I honestly feel like having more variety in fighting styles is great and like the idea that ball attacks still allow the attacker to move (balancing it is the key). It is something completely different from beam attacks and makes it more viable. Beam attacks as it is in 1.2.3 never have much impact in a match and unless they were hugely buffed in Final I dont see them being all that great with how big the maps are. I think having Ball attacks can offer a lot of variety in fighting styles and to balance them I would say why not allow the Beam users able to cancel their beams early. Say a beam struggles with a ball, the beam user noticed the other attacker approaching him and he can stop the beam and defend himself (stopping the beam on an uncontrolled Ball attack would result in both exploding and causing radius damage, this could very well hit the person approaching him from the said Ball attack, good balancing/counters right there)

    Another thing is, why not give the option to both players? Allow Ball attack users and Beam users both the ability to maintain teh struggle and push it back, But at any point they can cancel their beam and go on the approach. This can be done in a very appropriate way. Whoever disengages teh beam struggle, has the other beam/ball traveling at them at super speeds (it would be the punishment for not continuing to engage). What would the benefit be for ball users to keep engaging you say, well the benefit would be that the radius of explosion gets much bigger and does more damage the longer you channel its travel .... and you have the option of triggering it early as well. I like the aspects of using ball attacks, but I would say its damage/radius should depend on how long you channel during its travel duration.

    Honestly, I like the idea in the first one a lot better. Letting Beam users able to detonate a struggle in which a ball user is not controlling it still is very viable and can offer some great Gameplay mechanics. Allowing ball users the ability to use a ball as a distraction is still a great gameplay mechanic as well. I'm unsure how the beams/balls will be powering up in Final but if its like 1.2.3 the way it can be achieved is that while the ball user is cahrging up, when it gets to the yellow bar (the min required) it throws the ball off, but the remainder of its power is built up by continuing to channel it and stay in control. You see this happen a lot in DBZ, The spirit bomb and deathball can be let go by themselves .... but they always do more when the primary attacker stays channeling and pushes it forward. The ball attacks that stay unchanneled have always fallen flat.
    Last edited by vector; Nov 29th, 2017 at 07:23 PM.

  9. #9

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    You shouldn't be stuck until the ball is gone.
    Beam types should always win against ball types period. If you want, you can make the ball consume a little bit of your opponent's stamina (the one power struggling with it) and then after a second or two, the ball should explode and the beam would pass right through.
    It would be like a safe move, but it won't be no risk high reward kinda move.

  10. #10

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    Beams should win against balls regardless of powerlevel, and balls' pushing force shouldn't stack.

    "Special" balls such as Genki Dama should allow you to control it, though that'd immobilize the user.
    Last edited by hleV; Nov 29th, 2017 at 08:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    How can yours be so much bigger then mine??

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