The world is about to change

[Critical_Error]

I didn't even read the article I linked, I just linked it so you guys could have a little background information on the substance. I used a poor choice of words I can see that now, doesn't mean it can't be used as a battery because it can. Also just because there is still crude out there in the world doesn't mean we will be using it for everything like we are now when this has been mass produced. Fact of the matter is fossil fuels is a primitive concept and it will not last forever. If Graphene wasn't invented then there would be nothing to take it's place when it finally runs out, then we will be extremely ****ed.

 

[Hellion_Blade]

dude there are so many things that can replace fossil fuels now. If it weren't for the money sunk into them they wouldn't be used anywhere anymore.

 

[harSens]

I didn't even read the article I linked, I just linked it so you guys could have a little background information on the substance. I used a poor choice of words I can see that now, doesn't mean it can't be used as a battery because it can. Also just because there is still crude out there in the world doesn't mean we will be using it for everything like we are now when this has been mass produced. Fact of the matter is fossil fuels is a primitive concept and it will not last forever. If Graphene wasn't invented then there would be nothing to take it's place when it finally runs out, then we will be extremely ****ed.

You meant micro-supercapacitor, not conductor. That's not a poor choice of words, that's not having a clue.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/ucla-researchers-develop-new-technique-243553.aspx

Also, energy storage devices are not directly gonna solve all our energy production problems...

edit:
They also don't seem very suitable for cars as their weight is about twice as much per Wh as conventional lead-acid batteries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor

 

[Eon]

I didn't even read the article I linked,

COLOR ME SURPRISED

seriously who does this shit




ugh probably half of the people here don't answer that

 

[Critical_Error]

You meant micro-supercapacitor, not conductor. That's not a poor choice of words, that's not having a clue.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/ucla-researchers-develop-new-technique-243553.aspx

Also, energy storage devices are not directly gonna solve all our energy production problems...

edit:
They also don't seem very suitable for cars as their weight is about twice as much per Wh as conventional lead-acid batteries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_double-layer_capacitor

except the product is so light that it can be placed within your clothing lul. so many people on this forum are just jumping to the conclusions that it's all bull shit, pls. @ EON can you not read? I stated the reason why I linked it, so you guys could have some information on what this product is. I linked it to save you time and now you are using the fact that I haven't read that specific article against me? logic.

 

[Eon]

Telling people they are jumping to conclusions after you didn't read up entirely on the subject.


Okay thur

 

[Critical_Error]

Telling people they are jumping to conclusions after you didn't read up entirely on the subject.


Okay thur

because that is what I was trying to say right? no. you are the one who is jumping to conclusions here.. be more hypocritical Eon. I am saying that I didn't read that specific article, that doesn't mean I haven't searched the internet for hours to find out more about this substance. pls

 

[harSens]

Your reasoning goes from
graphene is a conductor => super battery => electric cars actually become good => good bye fossil fuels
and you accuse us of jumping to conclusions?

That you can make thin, mendable layers of graphene does not disprove that a graphene capacitor that has the same amount of energy stored in it is twice as heavy as a traditional battery.

Since you don't seem a fan of actually reading my sources (or any other scientific material), here's a comic to explain why raving websites are inaccurate:

 

[dutchmeat]

That actually applies to more than just science. But I approve of your message.

 

[Eon]

because that is what I was trying to say right? no. you are the one who is jumping to conclusions here.. be more hypocritical Eon. I am saying that I didn't read that specific article, that doesn't mean I haven't searched the internet for hours to find out more about this substance. pls

Oh well you read some science on the internet I shouldn't question your intense academia.

 

[Henry]

Your reasoning goes from
graphene is a conductor => super battery => electric cars actually become good => good bye fossil fuels
and you accuse us of jumping to conclusions?

That you can make thin, mendable layers of graphene does not disprove that a graphene capacitor that has the same amount of energy stored in it is twice as heavy as a traditional battery.

Since you don't seem a fan of actually reading my sources (or any other scientific material), here's a comic to explain why raving websites are inaccurate:

I suggest you read your fact rights before making fun of people's opinion. Graphene nowdays is considered to be the best conductor known to man.
You can make hundreds of use out of the Graphene, not only electrical, it can be made to act as a capacitor just as it could act as a conductor.
Heck, they can even make sheets of papers with the Graphene. This technique was recently discovered, the researchs and improvements are yet to come,
those conclusions are only based on the future expectations of the Graphene, so he's not really talking nonsense.

 

[harSens]

I suggest you read your fact rights before making fun of people's opinion. Graphene nowdays is considered to be the best conductor known to man.
You can make hundreds of use out of the Graphene, not only electrical, it can be made to act as a capacitor just as it could act as a conductor.
Heck, they can even make sheets of papers with the Graphene. This technique was recently discovered, the researchs and improvements are yet to come,
those conclusions are only based on the future expectations of the Graphene, so he's not really talking nonsense.

I'm disproving several steps of his reasoning chain with some quickly dug up sources (which I actually read, unlike other people here...). I would not be surprised if fossile fuel is used mainly for other purposes than personal transportation, which would also disprove his final reasoning step. Graphene is certainly interesting, but not the world changing thing he makes it out to be.

As for your "the best conductor known to man" claim, conductor of what? Electricity? Source?

 

[Henry]

I'm disproving several steps of his reasoning chain with some quickly dug up sources (which I actually read, unlike other people here...). I would not be surprised if fossile fuel is used mainly for other purposes than personal transportation, which would also disprove his final reasoning step. Graphene is certainly interesting, but not the world changing thing he makes it out to be.

As for your "the best conductor known to man" claim, conductor of what? Electricity? Source?

It could change the world, just not as fast at you would think. Just in case you didn't know, the Graphene research is not any news at all, it started in 2004; the whole energy storage discussion just came up now. The recently released product "impermeable painting" was also created using Graphene.

About the conductor... Yes, electricity. Researches have already determined how fast electrons move through the Graphene, and they indeed move faster than they do through Silicon along with some other advantages I dont remember quite well.
Source? It is just something that was researched a while ago, it never became as famous as the energy storage because there isn't any direct application for it, people dont usually care about that kind of things.

I remember years ago I went to an exposition about nano-tech and I remember how they said that in a few years it would be posible to create an impermeable painting, make materials much thicker and more resistant than an cobweb,
They even mentioned nano-socks at some point (yeah I know that sounds silly, we all laughed). They mentioned a couple of researches in the field of Biology, Chemistry, Electronic.

This new whole Graphene thing is what's been moving the nano-science research field so fast for the past years, there's tons of uses already found for Graphene other than energy storage devices.

 

[harSens]

Researches have already determined how fast electrons move through the Graphene, and they indeed move faster than they do through Silicon along with some other advantages I dont remember quite well.

Yeah, great source...
Silicon is a pretty crappy conductor anyways (compared to copper, silver):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity

Now Graphene is an interesting semi-conductor, but that does not have to do anything with its conductivity.

 

[Henry]

Yeah, great source...
Silicon is a pretty crappy conductor anyways (compared to copper, silver):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity_and_conductivity

Now Graphene is an interesting semi-conductor, but that does not have to do anything with its conductivity.

You want another source? Here, read a little:
http://theconversation.com/harder-t...n-steel-super-conductor-graphenes-unreal-5123
http://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=11679

I suggest you read this one and open your mind about Graphene to something other than "semi-conductor"
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...wVZQvV&sig=AHIEtbTrd0w-VPjmLedu3rl65R_xLRIfvQ

Now if you think conductivity has nothing to do with a semi-conductor, I also suggest to turn some pages to the left and review what a semi-conductor actually is and how does it work, and why Silicon is the most used element in transistors.

 

[harSens]

You want another source? Here, read a little:
http://theconversation.com/harder-t...n-steel-super-conductor-graphenes-unreal-5123
http://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=11679

Interesting, thanks. Do note however:

"Other extrinsic sources in today's fairly dirty graphene samples add some extra resistivity to graphene," explained Fuhrer, "so the overall resistivity isn't quite as low as copper's at room temperature yet.

I suggest you read this one and open your mind about Graphene to something other than "semi-conductor"
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...wVZQvV&sig=AHIEtbTrd0w-VPjmLedu3rl65R_xLRIfvQ

Now if you think conductivity has nothing to do with a semi-conductor, I also suggest to turn some pages to the left and review what a semi-conductor actually is and how does it work, and why Silicon is the most used element in transistors.

I never said graphene isn't an interesting material (quite the opposite in fact). I'm no semi-conductor expert, so I don't now how important conductivity is for semi-conductors. I would say it's not a key property though, since most transitors/chips are nowadays are made out of silicon, rather than germanium (which has lower resistance), simply because silicon is cheaper.

To get back on the original topic, my claims are just that
a. Graphene capacitors are not better suited as energy storage system for a car than a conventional battery.
b. Having good energy storage does not solve our energy production problems, we still need to produce the energy to put into that battery.
Thus the reason chain "graphene <del>is a conductor => super battery</del> can be used as a capacitor=> electric cars actually become good => good bye fossil fuels" is false.

 

[Eon]

Interesting, thanks. Do note however:



I never said graphene isn't an interesting material (quite the opposite in fact). I'm no semi-conductor expert, so I don't now how important conductivity is for semi-conductors. I would say it's not a key property though, since most transitors/chips are nowadays are made out of silicon, rather than germanium (which has lower resistance), simply because silicon is cheaper.

To get back on the original topic, my claims are just that
a. Graphene capacitors are not better suited as energy storage system for a car than a conventional battery.
b. Having good energy storage does not solve our energy production problems, we still need to produce the energy to put into that battery.
Thus the reason chain "graphene <del>is a conductor => super battery</del> can be used as a capacitor=> electric cars actually become good => good bye fossil fuels" is false.

stop using logic

 

[Henry]

Interesting, thanks. Do note however:
I never said graphene isn't an interesting material (quite the opposite in fact). I'm no semi-conductor expert, so I don't now how important conductivity is for semi-conductors. I would say it's not a key property though, since most transitors/chips are nowadays are made out of silicon, rather than germanium (which has lower resistance), simply because silicon is cheaper.

"Silicon diodes have a greater ease of processing, lower cost, greater power handling, less leakage and more stable temperature characteristics than germanium diode".

Silicon is indeed cheaper and that's one of the main reasons it is preferred over Germanium. However, I've worked with both diodes and Silicon is much more easier to work with (Germanium loses it's stability even with sunlight, it's way too sensitive). The mobility of electrons (conductivity) within a diode is in fact, a very important role. There are millions of transistors within an electronic device nowdays, imagine how much will its efficiency improve if you make the electrons move faster through all of those transistors.

a. Graphene capacitors are not better suited as energy storage system for a car than a conventional battery.

True, although it may not fully replace the conventional battery, it may add some improvement to it's use:
"A combination of Ultracapacitors and traditional batteries is identified as the most cost effective and reliable solution for applications where lifecycle and reliability are paramount" - http://www.grapheneenergy.net/

b. Having good energy storage does not solve our energy production problems, we still need to produce the energy to put into that battery.
Thus the reason chain "graphene <del>is a conductor => super battery</del> can be used as a capacitor=> electric cars actually become good => good bye fossil fuels" is false.

I guess so. However, I have good expectations in the future for that problem (that is, of course, if the government leave this people alone) cause the Solar Panel tech will also possibly have an advancement due to the Graphene.

 

[Eon]

As for an actual on topic contribution and not me being a douche to critical error because it's funny to get him worked up and I hate him for no reason, check out Sadoway's liquid metal battery:
http://cleantechnica.com/2012/02/20...wables-competitive-and-it-is-not-lithium-ion/

It's got interesting potential, however the problems it faces is when using it in vehicles and what not it takes a long time (days) to heat up the material to get to it's liquid form. Not quite a game changer, but it's something new and an interesting idea.

 

[xenophobic390]

Look on youtube for " Element 115 " by Robert " Bob " Lazar.
It will change your views and perspectives on fuels and propulsion and many other ...

..
i might as well add the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUfY2L3Q8xs