[1.3] Vegeta - Transformations, Attacks, Animations, Skin

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-I read the 1.3 outline and it didn't contain anything on Vegeta or Majin Vegeta - Transformations & Attacks
[align=center]~If I'm mistaken, please direct me to what I may have overlooked.
[/align]

I'm not going to run through 3 or 4 pages of topics to find a thread on 1.3's Vegeta and his transformations, costumes, etc., so I'll be posting in regards to it here. Also, I doubt these suggestions have been answered to, either.

I guess there are mixed messages floating around about Vegeta in 1.3. I believe there was a POTW posted on the homepage awhile back showcasing a new Vegeta model skinned by RavenBlade w/ Vegeta's Cell Saga armoring. Now, I thought I should mention if you plan to give 1.3 Vegeta: SSJ - SSJ2[Majin Vegeta] albeit the Cell Saga armor you may run into a few problems, as SSJ2[Majin Vegeta] never wore chest armor. If you plan to use the armor for SSJ Vegeta and blue suit for Majin Vegeta you will also run into problems. I've already seen this with ESF's default Krillin, he transforms and mysteriously grows hair and his clothes change, like he hopped from one saga to another. I recommend working on accuracy, fill in any holes, and leave custom skins to fans, as stated before by the team directly. A character's hair changing color or expanding in size is one thing, but for a character to completely change their clothing without giving the viewer proof on how it was done is no different than a dumb illusion. I strongly insist the two types of Vegeta's armor don't be implemented, as continuity issues will arise. Vegeta's Cell Saga armor has been used since the first release of this modification, maybe it's time to fastforward a little. Are there any team members who are willing to shed some information on this?

[align=center]Vegeta - [Attack/Transformation] Suggestions
Vegeta [primary transformations] SSJ - SSJ2
Vegeta [special transformation] Majin

Vegeta [attacks] Gallit Gun, Final Flash
Final Flash - [See Vegeta vs. Recoome]
~Executed like Final Flash & Gallit Gun [Blue type]
~Vegeta created his "Final Flash" sometime during the Namek era
~Equivalent to Super Saiyan Gallit Gun, Weaker than +Super Saiyan Final Flash, Charged differently


Super Saiyan Vegeta [attacks] Gallit Gun, Final Flash, Big Bang Attack

Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta [attacks] Final Flash, Big Bang Attack, Energy Ring
Energy Ring - [See Majin Vegeta vs. Goku]
~Performed like Ki Blast, possibly to freeze a player against vertical terrain



Majin Vegeta [attacks] Compacted Final Flash, Atomic Blast, Ultimate Sacrifice
Compacted Final Flash - [See Majin Vegeta vs. Goku]
~During one point in his battle with Goku, Majin Vegeta shrunk his Final Flash into a sphere & charged it within seconds
~Stronger than Big Bang Attack, Weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Final Flash, Charged differently

Atomic Blast - Executed like Big Bang Attack [See Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Buu]
~Stronger than Big Bang Attack, Stronger than Compacted Final Flash, Weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Final Flash



Ultimate Sacrifice - [See Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Buu]
~Stronger than Big Bang Attack, Stronger than Compacted Final Flash, Stronger than Final Flash, Limited range of damage




Buddy System - Babadi [Majin]
I noticed 1.3 will have have a Buddy System, where a player will be capable of swapping one character with another during battle. I think a nice addition would be to give Vegeta a buddy system aswell, via Babadi's Mind Control.
For balancing, additionally Vegeta's Majin transformation [aka Babadi's Mind Control] would have requirements.
[Babadi] Buddy System requirements: [Capable of Super Saiyan 2] [Frags above 200] ... or something along those lines.[/align]

[align=center]
Anything else: Animations need a lot of tune ups. Perhaps reanimating the attacks on a large scale to better resemble how they're performed in the Anime.
[/align]


I wouldn't know if I've overdone anything regarding 'Vegeta', but the transformations and attacks suggested above are really in no way or form towering over Goku's, Cell's or Buu's sets of skills, because I'm sure it all can be balanced properly in the long run.

Feedback appreciated,

Thanks.


Ultimate Sacrifice:

Initial Charge, Automated
~Charging vulnerability: In order to launch the Ki blast at the targeted opponent, it would have to be charged. Charge length approximately that of Gallit Gun. During the charge, the player would be vulnerable to any form of attack
The Ultimate Sacrifice attack would be performed through Adv. Melee, visually relative to Head-Ons in ESF. The player would use the attack by selecting it with the number keys, they will then target an opponent, charge it, then launch a Ki blast at them.

Automated Attack Sequence
~Attack vulnerability: During his leap towards his frozen opponent, Vegeta could possibly be vulnerable to melee
The opponent will become aware immediately as they're hit with the blast that would deal somewhere around 3 damage, they will then be frozen in place, at that point Vegeta will leap at them, engaging in a Head-On---An invisible isolation barrier will appear around the two players(confining ANY sort of damage released within its space), Vegeta will throw some punches and kicks at the opponent that will deal 5 damage a piece which I suppose could be blocked if done quickly before the engagement, Vegeta will then leap back, clench his fist-raise his right hand and begin powering up, which will prompt a series of arrow combinations that the opponent will have to match, such as; Up, Left, Down-Right, Up, Random, Random, Random, Up, Left, Down, Up-Right. The arrows' difficulty level & speed at which they appear would vary by the amount of Ki used initially to perform the attack, and/or how much Health/Ki the opponent had initially(100% Health/Ki could possibly slow the arrow rate down, as naturally their defenses would be higher). If the opponent matches the first set of arrows flawlessly, they will be randomly redirected to the attacker---if the attacker matches them, they will then again head back to the opponent in random order.
~If the attacker chooses 1 or more of the arrows incorrectly then the opponent wins
~If the opponent chooses 2 or more of the arrows incorrectly then the attacker wins

The attacker wins:
Vegeta converts his Ki into a gigantic explosion, killing the opponent instantly
Vegeta's Ki depletes
Vegeta's Health drops 20 points of what it was
Vegeta turns to a "solidified ash"(Thanks, Ravendust) for 10 seconds, becoming vulnerable to any kind of attack, a literally breakable character

The opponent wins:
Vegeta's Ki depletes
Vegeta attempts to explode but fails, the opponent will then break Vegeta's Ki barrier, and use melee to smash his skull in
Vegeta's Ki is depleted, therefore damage received would possibly be 2x greater

Possibly overused if implemented? This could be considered Adv. Melee with a bit more of an edge, and almost a lose-lose situation for the attacker. But, this is a modification based on Dragon Ball Z, and so is this suggestion. Go figure.

As for the Energy Rings, the only thing I'd suggest is that its charge rate is that of the Renzoku, and cannot be guided and only physically restrain a player for 2-3 seconds, giving the user some time to perform a melee maneuver, energy attack, escape or whatnot. I guess it's pointless, but during the Majin stage it could replace Vegeta's Renzoku, which is equally pointless.
 
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good point on the clothes..........
we can see the evm servers and you are right
attacks though is another thing!!!!!!i think beams are enough.
i dont know how is this going to be in 1.3 but i dont think there should be added/////////

EDIT i ment enrgy ring. the other is an other point of view :shocked:
 
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Vegeta won't have a seperate form for SSJ2 and Majin, they will be the same form.
Vegeta will not be getting a buddy.
Vegeta is not going to get a sacrafice attack. There's a thing in ESF called "respawn" which defeats the purpose of that attack all together.

The other suggestions you have just seem like variations on each other, and I don't see much point for renaming attacks that serve the same basic purpose.

As for the clothes, as far as I know the only model "errors" will occur with SSJ Trunks to USSJ Trunks, and Krillin to Mystic Krillin. Everything else will remain consistant.
 
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as for vegeta having a sacrifice attack (self destruct), it could be useful if implented right for balance. Yes you respawn, but it can be a useful move. Lets say you are low on health and you know your going to die, you could self destruct as a bit of strategy.

A way you could balance is maybe you can only use it as a super sayin, or you lose a certain amount of power level and ki, when you respawn, to keep people from spamming it. It could be an interesting tactic, because it would catch attackers off guard.
 

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No, you would punish attackers for not spamming big beams over and over at you and not instagibbing you. It's not stratigy, it's just a lame way to keep your opponent from getting a kill and possibly taking them down with you. There is no balance in a suicide attack for ESF, a game based on K : D ratio.

That's the same amount of stratigy as "kill in console" when you're losing a fight, but with the added benefit of possibly killing the person who's earned this kill.

Thumbs down on that attack.



An interesting thought, though- suppose this ring move were implemented- it could be some sort've low damage Ki-draining attack. Currently there is no way to directly lower the opponent's ki, and that could be a nice new way to go about adding new features.
 
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thanks for the input, i was trying to think of a new move and give more options to the player.

It doesnt have to be a lame move, it can be a strong self destruct move, just within a very small radius, and if you miss the opponent, its going to be much worse for you. And of course using up powerlevel, etc, when you respawn, and maybe a super sayin requirement to use it.
 
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How about give it huge damage a long charge time and the blast radius of Solar Flare.
 
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But the question is..... who will use it?
I like that ring attack, that'd be awsome!
Okay so Vegeta will only have 2 transformations but Goku will have three, or arer you adding something else with it(Powerup charge like piccolo).
 
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Vegeta is not going to get a sacrafice attack. There's a thing in ESF called "respawn" which defeats the purpose of that attack all together.
Wow, where are peoples' imaginations these days? This is Dragon Ball Z. Fans of the show do exist, you know. This is the kind of the thing that eats up software corporations today. It turns into some professional policy to ignore what would intrigue people and do it their own way, slap a couple things together, patent it and make money off it as quickly as possible. It's almost getting typical in this age. I don't mean that directed at you.

The other suggestions you have just seem like variations on each other, and I don't see much point for renaming attacks that serve the same basic purpose.
Yeah, they are. The same way the Super Saiyan forms are variations of the normal form. Super Saiyan(yellow hair, stronger attacks), Super Saiyan 2(yellow hair, stronger attacks), Super Saiyan 3(long yellow hair, stronger attacks). Doesn't it strike you as repetitive? The Final Flash I suggested (used in normal form) would be charged differently than used in Super Saiyan form(s). Majin Vegeta's Compacted Final Flash would also be charged differently than Final Flash used in any other form. In the show, Majin Vegeta pretty much presented his previous attacks in another form, though if Vegeta will be given SSJ & SSJ2 Majin then I'd hope he'd have more than just Gallit Gun, Big Bang Attack & Final Flash.

Problem is, Vegeta doesn't use many attacks other than Final Flash & Big Bang Attack in the show. And his Gallit Gun died out during the Freeza Saga & he never improved it, instead worked on his Big Bang Attack & Final Flash. Now, Majin Vegeta creates a couple new attacks, such as; Atomic Blast & Ultimate Sacrifice, yet he won't be given any of these to my knowledge. Why bother putting Majin Vegeta in the game? Why not just leave him with his Cell Saga Armor and give him "Super Vegeta", a.k.a "USSJ", or so they say? Rather, I find implementing Majin Vegeta a waste of time if none of the attacks I listed above will be given to him... because the attacks were taken straight from the show.

As for the clothes, as far as I know the only model "errors" will occur with SSJ Trunks to USSJ Trunks, and Krillin to Mystic Krillin. Everything else will remain consistant.
So does this mean Vegeta in all forms will have his Majin Buu Saga blue suit, or the Cell Saga armor?
 
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We have to take gameplay and balance into consideration. There is virtually no way to balance a suicide attack in a deathmatch game. Using that logic, I know a lot of Goku fans that would love to see him become invincible, because hey, he always wins in the series, right? Seriously dude... it's great you're a Vegeta fan and all, but we really can't listen to every fan request that comes our way without thinking about how it will affect the gameplay.

Yes the transformations are variations of each other, but it's probably better to think of them as steps up in power rather than extra attacks as you've suggested. They serve more of a purpose than just giving him more or less the same attacks for every form.

I can understand why you would want him to have all, or most of his attacks. But animations, attack colors, and names don't really change much. He'd still have his same basic arsenal in every form. I can see some potential for swapping Big Bang for Atomic Blast in his last form, but the rest I don't see much point for. As for the Energy Rings, I can't think of any way to balance an attack that pins you to a wall and fires as fast as ki blasts. So I'm sorry but that one gets a big :no: from me.

Revitalized Prince said:
So does this mean Vegeta in all forms will have his Majin Buu Saga blue suit, or the Cell Saga armor?
Take a look.
 
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We have to take gameplay and balance into consideration. There is virtually no way to balance a suicide attack in a deathmatch game. Using that logic, I know a lot of Goku fans that would love to see him become invincible, because hey, he always wins in the series, right? Seriously dude... it's great you're a Vegeta fan and all, but we really can't listen to every fan request that comes our way without thinking about how it will affect the gameplay.
It wouldn't be hard to balance this attack. What would need to be done is the same thing that was done to balance the average Super Saiyan's KameHameHa. But it was just a thought, I can see where problems would arise.

Take a look.
Oh c'mon. I just explained why Majin Vegeta wouldn't work with that model. Argh.
 
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Revitalized Prince said:
It wouldn't be hard to balance this attack. What would need to be done is the same thing that was done to balance the average Super Saiyan's KameHameHa.
How about this you are fighting a guy and he drops down to 1 HP while you are still over 50. Guess what rather than him just dieing he blows himself up killing you and someone else thats near him to. Heres what would moastly happen though.

2 people in advanced melee and he blows himself up just as they fly apart killing boath. Him gaining 2 FREE kills using a ****ty tactic cause he dosent stay dead.

Now if there was a gamemode with lots of HP and once you die you stay dead untill you get wished to life (wich wont happen cause people who die early wont want to wait to get wished back to life) than and ONLY than would that attack work well with gameplay.



As for the righs i could see them work nicely with an advanced melee combo :p
 

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I think the rings could be balanced, if they delt very little HP damage and instead took a small portion of ki.
 
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self explode : it takes 10 seconds from star to end to explode.
opponents can either kill you or run....
 
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I might have found a way to balance the suicide attack.

Suicide attack would do amount of maximum damage ecual to its caster current health points.
Ki drained into the attack ecuals the prosentage of attacks maximal potentsial.
(If only half ki drained into attack and has 30 hp than damage would be 15 to all in range.)
In some reasonable range not to small neither to big.
And it would have 2-3 (maybe more ore less) sekonds of charge time.
(Vegetas suiside attack consisted of releasing all life power (ki) there fore killing its user)
 
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Won' that make the sv's fps go deep down like in almost 10?
But I like the ring idea, like he said, little hp drain high ki drain, but it catches you and throws you to the wall and keeps you there for about 5 seconds depending on the amount of ki put in and the pl of the user.
 
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Why are you bent on saying that those attacks can be balanced? Please explain in your incoherent ways how you would balance those attacks? I mean, really, the team has already gone over most of what you have said and have tried many ways to balance things out but its IMPOSSIBLE. I really doubt you can out do the team. I mean, I have nothing against you, just the ignorance that is there.
 
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Kidboy, let's drop it down a few notches before I have to get my stick...
 
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To Kidboy17
Em were you talking to me? Cus if you were then i wasnt tryng to out do the team.
If i was i would programm my own half life mod but i aint.
Tryng to help thats all, and in my head that solution would work best if to impliment suiside attack at all.
Isnt suggestion forum made for the purpose to make suggestions how things would be better.
 
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But honestly... Vegeta's attacks would be hard to balance
I like the rings idea but... the only thing I can think of is you lose like half your ki, they get pinned to the wall for 5 seconds (kind of long in a dm game) and... yeah... you losing ki is your only disadvantage, their lack of movement is a disadvantage. Or have the powerstruggle bar appear and they can break free like Goku did
 

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