1.3 Improvements

[Reaverz_san]

and i don`t like number 2 i hate when swooping to type to times D or A or S or W couse my fingers hurt and if i get nervous i never make swoop

 

[VideoJinx]

Well =O, there are those out there who dont like 1.2's swooop:scared:

but thats why i added the idea of 1.3's swoop when you turn on turbo you dont have to double tap =)

 

[Reaverz_san]

but i mean when not even in turbo ... i don`t want to Double tap in all mods .. turbo .. power up all !

 

[VideoJinx]

Scratch what i said before about what i said about the swoop =O im actually starting to like the new swoop system =)

 

[Mountain Dewd]

Movement has been nerfed enough with the 1.3 system

These suggestions people come up with the make things "easier for new players" are rubbish

People just give up because they start a game, and aren't good at it instantly.

I'm sick of seeing a fantastic game get slated towards all the people who were too lazy to give it a go initially.

 

[Skiwan]

I agree with Mountain dude fully.

I must say though, that when you make a suggestion, you have to think of the top 3 things before you consider it a good idea:

1) how does it effect gameplay?
2) does it get used enough to be worth the time to be completed?
3) Is it actually needed?

1.3 has been in development now for the best of 3 years, seriously, you need to only suggest things that are vital to gameplay and balance, this head on thing is purely aesthetic and doesn't do anything but piss people off after a head on, I really dont see the point.

The last thing on the list really is - Is it dragonball like? but usually you can incorporate that into every idea as long as you make sure it's actually useful and balanced.

 

[VideoJinx]

Movement has been nerfed enough with the 1.3 system

These suggestions people come up with the make things "easier for new players" are rubbish

People just give up because they start a game, and aren't good at it instantly.

I'm sick of seeing a fantastic game get slated towards all the people who were too lazy to give it a go initially.

1.3's Gameplay isn't final yet.. so your thoughts shouldn't be final either..

and what about the movement has been "nerfed" ?

Do you believe this because the controls are something your having trouble getting used to?.

the way i see it.. these controls are a better introduction for gamers wanting to have fun playing esf..

and in reality nobody has gotten "pro" at 1.3 yet.. there is even more room for skill to be aquired compared to 1.2...because of the accuracy/reaction speed/mind-power(using strategy) needed to become good at 1.3.


show me a move that's done in 1.2 that i cant do in 1.3..

then ill consider the controls being "nerfed"..


Also.. your acting as if im actually changing the game.. your attitude comes across as rude.. keep in mind these are just suggestions not official changes..

If you dont like the suggestions..state your logical reaons and move on.. if not it's just opinion vs opinion , which leads nowhere fast.

I agree with Mountain dude fully.

I must say though, that when you make a suggestion, you have to think of the top 3 things before you consider it a good idea:

1) how does it effect gameplay?
2) does it get used enough to be worth the time to be completed?
3) Is it actually needed?

1.3 has been in development now for the best of 3 years, seriously, you need to only suggest things that are vital to gameplay and balance, this head on thing is purely aesthetic and doesn't do anything but piss people off after a head on, I really dont see the point.

The last thing on the list really is - Is it dragonball like? but usually you can incorporate that into every idea as long as you make sure it's actually useful and balanced.

note taken

 

[Skiwan]

Try dashing into a wall and walljump off it. Teleport after a dash/swoop requires nice timing and a good ping, simpliest of things now are a much more arduous task, and thus there's no room for expanding, all there is are parameters, and they're not that flexible, not when compared to 1.2.

 

[VideoJinx]

Ya your right, its true that in 1.2's controls were more flexible to the experienced hands..

and yea it sux that its harder to do these things now.... i completely agree..

but.. what's the point of playing a game when only attracts a few people =|...

i still think the 1.3 needs work attracting the new comers* and the experienced player*

and now that the speed of 1.3 is actually faster, and the amount of ki given is now much larger; are these moves really needed when you could simply swoop, aim well, and hit?

I'm still havin a hard time deciding but it's just question

 

[Mountain Dewd]

1.3 movement isnt a new set of controls like people keep saying.

Its a new set of restrictions placed on the 1.2 controls, If you think this allows for more flexibility, I'm not even going to bother to argue with you, because you clearly didnt spend much time with 1.2.

The reason no-one is "pro" at 1.3 is because of the limited movesets we now have, people have had to resort to simpler means of attack because of the restrictions.

There are many things I like about 1.3, but movement isnt one of them, and I'm sorry if I come off as rude, but you do need to re-think your suggestions, because they are more of a hindrance to gameplay than they are an addition.

Esf 1.2 was a great game, it was a little hard to get the hang of, and I spent about a week getting my ass handed to me, but frankly I couldn't give a **** about "making things easier" the game is being directed towards people who didnt give it the attention it deserved.

More emphasis needs to be placed on "making things work"

The reason Esf didnt attract a huge amount of players wasnt just the learning curve, its a dbz mod, its never going to be mainstream.

 

[VideoJinx]

1.3 movement isnt a new set of controls like people keep saying.

Its a new set of restrictions placed on the 1.2 controls, If you think this allows for more flexibility, I'm not even going to bother to argue with you, because you clearly didnt spend much time with 1.2.

Just wanna point out.. i didn't say that...and im one of the very skilled people in 1.2...

an i believe 1.2 is a great game.. but now.. 1.3 is being worked on... the goal should be making 1.3 better then 1.2, not just graphicly but also in gamplay..(an thats my intention and reason for suggesting ideas; making esf funner for everyone)



right now im throwing ideas out into air.... there is no need to spike them down when they could spark ideas in someone else.

 

[Skiwan]

The thing is, 1.2 was dominated by simple melee players because there just wasnt a successful alternative to simple melee, no other form of attack (except for a good beam spamming/beam jumper) was both offensive and defensive, and also enabled you to get kills quick and easily. If you noticed nearly everyone who's new to the game started with throwing or advanced melee, because it's simple they didnt have to learn much, but it was also completely useless in comparison to simple melee, that and what i think was the biggest mistake/best thing, the combo's where if a newb got into advanced melee you can bet you're gonna pull off the combo at least twice. This is what put off the new players, learning the simpliest things ment you couldnt compete with players who chose the harder route. You put any moderately skilled simple melee player against somebody who's great in advanced melee but sucks at anything else, the simple melee player will definately win. Why? you just cant deal the damage in advanced melee, its just impossible to compete as soon as you've done advanced melee 5 times its a piece of piss the only concern is randoms.

Anyway, I'm getting side tracked, the point is, we're nerfing simple melee already (and to be honnest the entire movement system which will effect every aspect, advanced beams and simple melee, difference is simple melee rely on nothing but movement) however we're not even using the new advanced melee. I want it to be an option which i choose, this lesson should've been learnt from 1.2 where the game was geared towards simple melee, instead people decided that simple melee is what should be changed before actually looking at what the real problem is. We're being told now that small close movement is what the game needs when we dont even know how it's gonna effect advanced melee, maybe it'll make the game drag even more because we'll constantly too close to somebody to not get out of advanced melee now, maybe It'll mean beam spammers are gonna have a great time when people leave advanced melee and cant get away a long distance. We just dont know, yet we're all trying to say what's going to be needed before we even get there. So who's to say this new way of movement will make it even more discouraging to new players? We just dont know.

I firmly believe that movement is the most vital part of esf, it's important in every possible area of the game. If advanced melee was any good, it'd be used just as much as simple melee was, the swooping had nothing to do with it, neither did the double tapping.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

Jinx, the way you've spoken about 1.3 I doubt you're one of the more skilled 1.2 players, if you played 1.2 long enough to get good, you'd have to atleast acknowledge that 1.3 movement is worse.

@ David

Man, I couldnt of said it better myself, esf 1.2 failed to intergrate two attack systems, one was vastly superior to the other.

I think restricting what was an effective system to force players to adopt a new one, isnt the way to go, I've read through the design documents, and the melee system sounds like a confusing knockoff of Sparking Neo.

Esf was great because it was flexible and fun, Sparking Neo is fun for a couple of days, untill you realise how tedious the system is.

The restrictions on everything will force players to fight a certain way, and the game will boil down to something predictable and boring.

 

[VideoJinx]

wow David.. lol neva thought it that way.. but it seems your right..

hrmm im already warming to 1.3's controls but i still like 1.2's controls

and ive been in servers where people have quit because the controls were too hard..

So here is my suggestions/thoughts: keep 1.2's controls but add an optional swooping method..

like a handi cap swoop, but the catch would be... the handicap swoop would be limited in what moves you can do...... and 1.2's swoop would be just the way it is now..

as for the basic melee vs adv melee perspective i completely agree...you've made me start to think of some ideas that could possibly solve that..
Edit::::
Moutain Doo

Im done talkin 2 u for now.. cuz you dont seem to get the big picture...
It's a suggestion.. to make esf 1.3 better... ive already told u my thoughts on the idea.. and I'm not reinforcing my suggestions.. im trying to come up with ways to improve 1.3.. If you cant see past "argueing" then there really isn't a reason to post

 

[Mountain Dewd]

Thats fine, but next time, when someone gives you criticism on a flawed Idea, dont dismiss it as being argumentative, try to take it on board.

As for not seeing the "Big picture" I actually considered the gameplay ramifications of your ideas, which is something you failed to do.

 

[VideoJinx]

OMG T_T i didn't see it as a crit my bad x_X


I completely woudlve if it was a vid

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The reason Esf didnt attract a huge amount of players wasnt just the learning curve, its a dbz mod, its never going to be mainstream.

Nah trust me, any game can go mainsteam if it is good enough, Super Smash brothers anyone (referring to aesthetic)? They still play monthly tournaments everywhere, and close by me for some decent cash (USA).

Although ..esf needs to be completed, and also balanced out for it to become a competitor. Smash needs it too but not as drastic.

Topic:
1) Why does longer fighting = faster speeds. Does not make sense at all, and would be confusing in gameplay.

2) Turbo is fine, it does what it should do. Turbo on = higher pl, but burns ki slowly.

3) This does nothing to help gameplay, just would seem annoying to go through. It would just make playing the game worse for people.
Offtopic related, this reminds me of counter strike source flashes. Although I dont play it compared to 1.6, the flashes in source are so annoying, with that ringing in your ear.

4) Now that is something to think about. Maybe there can be a stronger turbo if you hold down the button. It would take a couple seconds to charge up (like the show when they powerup). It makes you stronger then regular turbo, but it burns ki faster.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

Uh..

How can you possibly compare Esf, a fan made mod for a game that came out in 1998..

With a first party title from Nintendo

They are in no way similar in any possible way.

Not to be rude, but thats the dumbest comparison I've heard in a long time.

Esf cant go mainstream, as it violates copyright law.

I've thought for a long time that if the team ditched the dbz and moved to source, (and maybe released a small demo) I would have no problems paying for the game.

As for the smash bros tournaments, I wish they had them here in Aus, I still play with friends almost every day (wavedashing luigi ftw)

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I meant, it has pokemon, and other weird and kid-looking characters, that didnt stop the game from becoming popular. It was all aesthetic.

counter-strike was a mod before, just like esf is now. And it still is the most widely played multiplayer fps now.

 

[Mountain Dewd]

You're missing the point.

Smash Brothers has a truckload of popular Nintendo characters duking it out, that was always going to sell.

Its a first party Nintendo title, not an obscure independant game.

Counter-Strike was marketable.

Esf isnt, the team are using characters that they dont have the rights to use, if it did gain an extreme amount of popularity, knowing funimation they would probably receive a cease and desist order.

They would have no grounds to fight it, as they have no legal rights to the characters.