How responsive is the new melee?

Ok, It's been a while.

I see that there is great improvement on the graphical side of the game. Animations, shaders etc. all look fantastic.

But I don't see a lot about the new melee system.

I wonder how much responsive new melee system is. In the old esf the basic melee was quite unresponsive after being hit while recovering. All you do is to hold a button and wait till you can control the character again. These long unresponsive periods are like the captured motion clips in the old fifa series, you wait and watch the same movie again and again(if you know what I mean, otherwise don't bother).

they will ask something like:
'wait for your update'

At least there are people still interested in the gameplay.

underline said:

they will ask something like:
'wait for your update'

Click to expand...

Allmost correct.

vegetaspride said:

Ok, It's been a while.

I see that there is great improvement on the graphical side of the game. Animations, shaders etc. all look fantastic.

But I don't see a lot about the new melee system.

I wonder how much responsive new melee system is. In the old esf the basic melee was quite unresponsive after being hit while recovering. All you do is to hold a button and wait till you can control the character again. These long unresponsive periods are like the captured motion clips in the old fifa series, you wait and watch the same movie again and again(if you know what I mean, otherwise don't bother).

Click to expand...

Well if it helps you any. We are basing the melee system on basic melee itself. Responsive or not. Its still the best system and way less boring and more usefull than advanced melee in 1.2

So we decided to build on that. Though you will have some countermesures though those will be revealed when dam finally gets round to posting the stuff he was supposed to ^^

By unresponsive do mean the recovery time is too slow? Or you mean your buttons won't seem to respond after recovering? If your buttons get jammed and become unresponsive, you might want to fix your rates. I personally use cl_updaterate 102 and cl_cmdrate 9999.

If you're talking about recovery time, 1.3's is faster I believe.

I don't know what you mean by responsive, but Simple Melee is a branch of the new Advanced Melee, and it works perfectly. If you're asking for more information, then Underline's comment was dead on.

Basic melee concept is fine.

Swooping and trying to connect with an opponent is also fine.

The problem begins after the hit.
-The recovery time is too much.
-Nearly nothing to do to change the way you recover.
-The recovery time leads to easy, unavoidable combos. If being hit, then sit back relax and watch the sequence again and again.
-Right after recovery some unresponsiveness(going into block, tp or swoop).

Much faster recovery, having greater effect on the way you recover can get the game much more interesting preventing guaranteed combos.

Also I would really like to see players trading blows instead of being kicked away that much.

1.3 will have 2 types of recovery, the 1.2 type which requires you to hold down left trigger and you slowly recover at the expense of ki, and a new type - instant recovery which is right click, which will eat a chunk of stamina, but you recover instantly.

That sounds awesome.

I agree, sounds really good. Instant recovery should add a lot to the melee.

But I didn't like the old option. Instead the ability to change direction(slightly, at the expense of ki) or blocking while recovery may add a lot more variety.

BTW what about blocking, is it the same as the 1.2 version ?

Blocking works like it did in 1.2.

Damaera said:

Blocking works like it did in 1.2.

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Blocking is not compatible with the new melee yet dam. So technically it doesnt work yet ^^

Grega said:

Blocking is not compatible with the new melee yet dam. So technically it doesnt work yet ^^

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Good, then you still have the opportunity to implement a better system.


In my opinion blocking should be easier BUT much less effective and the outcome should vary.

A low pl character should not be able to block the hit of a very high pl character and not take any damage or move.

You may block an upper or side attack but you'll still take damage, comsume more ki and be vurnable for a short amount of time so if the opponent connects with you in that time interval then you can not block again etc.

That's a horrible, horrible suggestion. Do you know how much harder it would be if that was in 1.2? Newbies would die even faster if they fought against the pros.

Well, take this from a Beta Tester.

It ain't no Terri Schiavo.

vegetaspride said:

Good, then you still have the opportunity to implement a better system.


In my opinion blocking should be easier BUT much less effective and the outcome should vary.

A low pl character should not be able to block the hit of a very high pl character and not take any damage or move.

You may block an upper or side attack but you'll still take damage, comsume more ki and be vurnable for a short amount of time so if the opponent connects with you in that time interval then you can not block again etc.

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So you're saying if a high PL character hits a low PL character, it will stun him for a short amount of time? If blocking is easier then blocking will be a bigger part in melee combat, yet it will serve as a disadvantage for low powerlevel characters giving the higher powerlevel character even a bigger advantage.

Think about it, blocking = easier. The higher PL character can use the easy block while the low powerlevel character can't use it as effectively. Ignoring that the higher powerlevel character are pros most of the time, the higher powerlevel character already has an advantage in the fight(his PL), giving him another big advantage is a really bad idea.

Renyori said:

So you're saying if a high PL character hits a low PL character, it will stun him for a short amount of time? If blocking is easier then blocking will be a bigger part in melee combat, yet it will serve as a disadvantage for low powerlevel characters giving the higher powerlevel character even a bigger advantage.

Think about it, blocking = easier. The higher PL character can use the easy block while the low powerlevel character can't use it as effectively. Ignoring that the higher powerlevel character are pros most of the time, the higher powerlevel character already has an advantage in the fight(his PL), giving him another big advantage is a really bad idea.

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Things are getting in the ways so I can't find the time to write this summer time.

Reynori, there is always the adjustment period to make it balanced. What I proposed simply increases the outcome variety of blocking hence the melee itself.

Blocking attacks from different directions should result different results. I am not saying high pl should always stun the opponent. I am saying the defender should be able to block the front attacks better then attacks from the sides, if the attacker hits in a good angle then he is rewarded with stunning his opponent or inflicting a higher damage. I also would like to mention that quantization should be fine on the angle of attacks instead of only side or front.

And about the newbies, Sorry but in the current blocking system a newbie dies almost without being able to move so this can not be worse on that part.

Right now one can block while free falling etc. and blocking has 1-0 outcomes where you block or you are kicked away. This implementation is not good enough opinion.

There'd have to be some kind of method to what you're talking about. What kind of variety would result from blocking and how would it effect the combat?

One kind of variety I think you mean is being knocked back. Like if a player falls and blocks, they just fall straight down, and they remain completely unaffected by the attack. Maybe if they block, they should do a free fall away from the attack? Though I think this would make it more difficult to do a follow-up. It might look kind of awkward too...

You want something to randomly occur to make blocking less predictable for the defender, while at the same time making it more advantageous for the attacker, correct? Aside from consuming more or less ki, more or less stamina, more or less HP, or a knockback/stun, I'm not sure what else you could put in there.

Maybe code a 20% chance that blocking will still negate the damage but cause a shorter knockback.

Imo, blocking should consume more stamina when a player has full stamina, and less to none when they're lower. That way using block while full stamina on the offense will lessen your effectiveness, and using it while you're low on stamina will help you.

vegetaspride said:

Things are getting in the ways so I can't find the time to write this summer time.

Reynori, there is always the adjustment period to make it balanced. What I proposed simply increases the outcome variety of blocking hence the melee itself.

Blocking attacks from different directions should result different results. I am not saying high pl should always stun the opponent. I am saying the defender should be able to block the front attacks better then attacks from the sides, if the attacker hits in a good angle then he is rewarded with stunning his opponent or inflicting a higher damage. I also would like to mention that quantization should be fine on the angle of attacks instead of only side or front.

And about the newbies, Sorry but in the current blocking system a newbie dies almost without being able to move so this can not be worse on that part.

Right now one can block while free falling etc. and blocking has 1-0 outcomes where you block or you are kicked away. This implementation is not good enough opinion.

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I fail to see your point.

You do know that a player is represented as a box right. That means you can only use side of attack. And thats allready in since 1.0

IF you used a sphere as a representation for the player that wouldnt really work well since a box can mimic the shape better than a spheare. And if you used the characters hitboxes as the representation then youd never be able to hit anyone.

I think ellipse would be best