Insta-Counter: It must change. Period.

There is a technique all of the best players do. I'm not sure how it's done, and if anyone knows, please don't post it because I don't think it's a good idea to spread it.

You hit a guy. He's blocking. But as soon as you hit him...you are instantly countered, with no chance for reaction.

BIG BALANCE ISSUE.

I usually get owned by this technique every time...I hate it, because honestly, when I have a fight with a dude who is really good but doesn't use this technique...and it's a sick fight, and a real testament to the game's beauty.

But the damn insta-counter techique takes all the fun out, because it's about timing without it, and once people start using it, they become invincible.

The other problem here is it would be all too easy to create a script that makes us instantly counter when you hold block and get hit. I think that maybe there might already be one (I noticed people using this technique seem to turn it on and off sometimes, as if they either do it every time, or not at all. Just a theory though, I'm not crying about it yet).

I just wanted to ask...is this going to be "fixed" in beta 1.1? And if you're gonna post in defense of it, don't bother, it's an exploit plain and simple, and it's a dangerous one if the scripters get ahold of it. It should be fixed.

So...is it gonna be fixed, or no? I don't remember it being on the outline....

nobody knows how to counter anymore...

when you swoop, you stop teleport behind them and them right back in front of him and then swoop and hit,but since your slow it might not work for you.:S :]

I know how to do it, but it only works if it fools the player. A good player will just keep block held. And then all I get is nailed by being near them, cause they just let go of block and I'm tagged.

This move isn't a part of the game, there is supposed to be a delay there. And when I fight someone who doesn't use this technique, the fight is just so much more entertaining and tough.

I use the counter technique sometimes, but when I do, I'm usually assaulted by "hey nice script" or somthing along those lines. I think it is a nice touch that you have to figure out how to use yourself. Untill then, teleport alot and use beams. :yes:

And it does involve timing. You have to...do the right thing*...before they teleport out of the way. It is very possible to do. So heres a hint: as soon as you hear your melee connect, telepor the frock outta there.

*wouldn't want to give away the seceret...would I???

It will change. If it hasn't been adjusted in 1.1 it will be totally remodled in 1.2 . It is currently unbalanced.

Yeah, the current block system is just kinda a place holder atm. In the future the advanced melee system will be in place which will be quite interesting (and no, there's really no info on it yet)

-Karrde-

Easiest way to avoid block and counter is to teleport twice when you hit the person.It always works.You could also make a wide turn on the blocker causing him to readjust and then go back where you came from.:laff: I haven't really had much trouble with blockers, except for one.

Yeah I always get PWNED by that technique...but then again I suck (see signature). I'm not sure if they should fix it or not though..it is annoying but it does require a bit of skill to pull it off so.....i can't say I don't like it.

I know how to dodge, ask anyone who's played me, I teleport like a mother****er.

In fact almost every time I hit a blocker who is any good, I have to teleport away just by reflex.

I know how to dodge, how to go around back, all that stuff. I'm not AWESOME but I'm definitely an advanced player. I know how to avoid a counter.

This reaction I'm talking about is INSTANTANEOUS, and there's no way around it except for if it's being done on a listen server where I'm the admin (then no one's reflexes are as fast as mine).

I just really think it should be removed, but mainly only because I've had some great battles, but it seems only when people DON'T use this technique, are the battles so great.

...While you swoop at them, move ABOVE them or BELOW them then quickly tilt ur mouse up and u hit them from top or bottom...
Blocking should make you BLOCK FOR 5 SECONDS EACH TIME.

I use the counter and most ppl cant even get to their tele button its so fast and ive been called a scripter cuz of it before, anywho more advance players already know how to get passed this, if u have good ping *TIP* u can teleport backwards instead of frontwards and then they wont be able to nail u *TIP* :fight:

LOL i know wut ur talking about i use it in battles when ppl are newbing others. Infact they actually do that in dbz so it is balanced. Watch dbz closely and u can tell the do it. But yeah i know how to avoid that from happening. But its only like a 50/50 chance. And u can only do that insta counter techinque if u gots skills cuz it requires timing. Im not saying im the best player but as he said im also an advanced player. Ive found a way to do the insta counter with out even attempting to block. That gets everyone mad. I also found a way to pull of 3 hits in aboutl ike 3-4 secs. Like i mean when the enemy hasnt even hit the ground yet. Its fun but u have to spend alot of stratgey and time in it. I think the esf team had a reason for putting that theiro_o

Originally posted by V'
Easiest way to avoid block and counter is to teleport twice when you hit the person.It always works.You could also make a wide turn on the blocker causing him to readjust and then go back where you came from.:laff: I haven't really had much trouble with blockers, except for one.

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HA! you havent played anyone descent. there is a trick to getting the counter perfectly and undodgable with high ping. not gonna say ofcourse but anyway...if you keep getting 'pwned' by something like this, why do you always attack head on? if they guy is being an a-hole and a noob and just block-countering, find a feckin way around it! its not hard! try going around or waiting for him to charge u and doing a really advanced tele to side a swing back and hit (not recommened for newbies lol) but in every case, i garuntee you their is a way around a-holes that dont know how to melee. As for those who do and use this tech anyway, well there is a way around them to, that will take a lot longer than the noobs but you will figure a way around...

Block spamming is not the easiest technique to get around. Obviously you haven't played against anyone who knows what they are doing. Believe me, I have beaten PCJoe this way without taking as much as 60 damage. And as Optional stated, there is a certain way of timing it that works 100% of the time, and I know how to do it. You can tell me to block spam you any time and I'll show you what I mean.

Originally posted by |X|trem[3]
I use the counter and most ppl cant even get to their tele button its so fast and ive been called a scripter cuz of it before, anywho more advance players already know how to get passed this, if u have good ping *TIP* u can teleport backwards instead of frontwards and then they wont be able to nail u *TIP* :fight:

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Actually most times if u are not holding foreward...it will teleport you up or down...or in some other random direction. i like using teleport...in the last fiew weeks ive gotten really good at it, and most people cant even counter me. I fly in hit, telepot then fly in again and if they block again i just hit and tele again. Until they eventually get confused to where i am. as for this post i figure that blocking is a good thing. sometime i like to watch two good people battle it out and watch them both warp around. To me blocking is not a bad thing, it makes things more interesting. As for when someone attackes me with melee, someimes i block other times i warp upwards then fly down and smack them in the head. it is really pretty funny to see people getting pissed and calling me a cheater and a scripter. But sometimes i go one on one with one of the greats, and it is a real awsome fight when we go at it, sometimes i get complemented on how great a fight we had.
but the reason the fight was so great was because of blocking. blocking makes the fight last longer, and it tests your skill and reaction time more.


So i hope this post helps some people figure out how blocking is also a good thing besides all bad.

Thanks for ur time

sLoP

Oh Slop, I know exactly what your saying and I agree with you 110%. Block rules, and even people who "spam" it (i.e. hold it down and wait for you to attack to get off the counter for big damage) can be fairly easily defeated. Play me sometime and you'll see, I'm at least an mid-to-high level intermediate at block/teleport/melee (five button mouse, hehe).

What I'm talking about is this exploit, whereby upon hitting an opponent, they can INSTANTANEOUSLY block and counter you. It's not like I mean, I hit, stand there like an ass for the delay, and get clobbered, and I'm complaining.

What happens is I dive at Guy A. He blocks me, I teleport out of the way and avoid the counter. Sometimes he'll get me, sometimes he won't; in that case it's about talent, style, technique, and reflexes (and ping I suppose). The fights rule every time like this.

BUT...

I'm meleeing with Guy B, and let's say Guy B knows this technique of "insta-countering." Here's what happens: I swoop (not just from straight ahead either, I teleport A LOT and change up directions a great deal, I'm not diving headfirst and hitting a blocking opponent and getting clobbered). And the block/counter thing happens AS SOON AS I AM WITHIN MELEE RANGE OF GUY B, I WILL BE MELEED AWAY, EVEN IF I AM SWOOPING AND HE IS STANDING STILL.

The reaction is INSTANT. There is almost no chance of escape. I have even on occasion seen my own attempted teleport particle effect in place as I was sent flying to the ground.

This technique (aka EXPLOIT) is spreading, and it needs to be fixed, before the whole game becomes people waiting for a dumb swooping player to tag on.

I mean it's INSTANTANEOUS. So sudden in fact that often times I don't even SEE THE ANIMATION OF THE BLOCK, OR THE SPRITE ACCOMPANYING MY MELEE IMPACT ON THE BLOCKER! it's as if they can just...kick me away no matter what, and all they have to do is face me.

There is a lamer version of this where there IS a block and there is maybe a .250 second delay between the block and the counter but even that is absurdly close together and almost impossible to escape.

On many occaisons how ever I have come across people who use this technique. And on most of those occasions, the counterattack has been INSTANTANEOUS, and many times my melee hit didn't even register--it was as if I were kicked out of my swoop, without any regard for my PL, how hard I'm swooping, how long I hold the button, etc. etc.

I can deal with quick reflexes. But instantaneous ones are not right and I personally feel it puts a real stranglehold on the gameplay.

And don't tell me to do it back, because then I'LL get bored in about 15 minutes every time too. :0\

Exactly. We aren't talking about somebody holding down block. We're talking about people like me who time it so well that they can actually *parry* your attack and counter. Your melee hit may not even land at all if they are fast enough. It's an exploit.

no thats not an exploit


thats someone with the ability to hit block before u land a hit then release it and attack back

its not an exploit its something we call skill

Do you people relise there is skill in melee, aimiing with beams.... and guess what.... EVEN BLOCKING!

Err and its really easy to do instant counter. Oh and teleporting behide people who accually KNOW how to block wont work on them. But seriously ive only seen 1 person who truly studys blocking.

It IS an exploit, Hibiki.

Most of the time this happens, I don't even register a hit on the guy. THERE IS NO IMPACT THAT IS BLOCKED THEN COUNTERED, YOU ARE JUST HIT AWAY INSTANTLY, AS SOON AS YOU ENTER MELEE RANGE OF THE OPPONENT.

It IS an exploit. There is supposed to be some window when you hit someone who's blocking, isn't there? I remember reading it somewhere vaguely...

Besides that fact. The people who block and counter real fast are one thing; I have no problem with them, because sometimes even I can get them off pretty quick. But it's not supposed to be SEAMLESS! And most of the time this happens, the other guy doesn't even appear to be blocking, you're just suddenly hit away!

These instances that I'm talking about, it's not even like they sit and hold block, then I'm dumb and dive headfirst, get blocked, and countered. When the technique/exploit I'm refering to is executed, your melee blow NEVER EVEN LANDS 9/10 times...which means there IS NO WINDOW for teleporting, blocking back, sidestepping, etc.

Which is an exploit. It's only recently popped up but it's getting to a point now where LOTS OF PEOPLE are doing it CONSTANTLY.

It's gonna be the next DFA/Backstab attack, like in Jedi Knight II.

I just have much better battles when this exploit isn't being used, and I think the rest of you will all agree.

It is NOT a quick block and counter that is almost seamless, that is different and still escapable (although barely). IT IS A COUNTER THAT SEEMINGLY DOES NOT EVEN ALLOW THE AGGRESSIVE PLAYER'S ATTACK TO REGISTER.

If I dive at a guy and melee, the melee hit sound should play, the sprite for melee impact should appear, and I should see the other guy in the block stance, no?

None of those things happen. In fact most times I'm knocked away AS SOON AS I AM WITHIN MELEE RANGE, as opposed to after I've been hit and notably blocked.

If you don't care that's fine. I don't plan on using the technique and I guess I'll forever remain "medium" in skill because of it. But hey, whatever. It's a lame exploit and it's not supposed to work like that, I can promise you--because if it is, and we all learn this trick, any idiot who plays aggressively like me will get owned to high holy hell. And that obviously makes no sense for gameplay reasons.