On the Melee In 1.2

Well, in Zilea's thread about how he 0wnz0rz the melee system, pcjoe stopped in and told us all that a new melee system is being implemented for 1.2, and that "most of [the current melee system] will probably be deleted."

I'm pretty upset by that, as I really like the current melee system. Don't get me wrong, I have faith in the team and joe's ability to design a great system...I just really enjoy the current one, and wish it didn't have to get changed. I admit it does lack some depth but...what if the new one doesn't accurately simulate the show the way this one can, when two skilled players go at it? I love that stuff.

I have a lot of fun with the current melee despite it's flaws. I think a lot of people just don't read the manual file--I see a lot of people complaining about helplessly flying across the map and such, but the fact is if you have some ki and hold the button you can easily stop yourself from even the hardest melee hit with fairly minor damage. I think just a lot of people don't know how to recover from a melee hit properly, or use the swoop system correctly or efficiently in conjunction with other things like teleporting and blocking.

It would be absurd to ask for it to be made an option, but that'd be ideal. "Simple Melee" or "Advanced Melee" in the server options. But...if the melee is going to change, will it still be possible for say me and my friends to install the last beta with the simple melee (1.1, in this case) and have it in a different folder (like "oldesf" or something) so that we can still play it online?

Not that I don't have faith in the team to come up with something great. It's just that there seem to only be two ways to do melee really, at least as far as I can see: DMZ's way, and variations on the current 1.0 melee system. And it sounds like the ESF fans are screaming for things that are leaning more towards DMZ's way, which...well, is just not fun, at least not for me (I'm holding back a lot, can you tell? lol).

And for what it's worth, the current Beta 1 took what, two years? How long are we going to be waiting for 1.2, if it's got a super overhaul for melee in it? Don't get me wrong, I have faith that they will design a great system...I just really don't want to see the game go the direction of DMZ's control scheme (which is just not functional or well executed enough to be fun, if you ask me).

Joe or the team can put my fears to rest right now if someone replies to this and tells me it will bear no resemblance to DMZ's system of melee whatsoever. I'll feel a little bit better if I know at least that much. And also as long as there's no repeated clicking or button combinations involved.

I don't know. Maybe it's nothing, but I have concerns. Anyone else have anything to say on the subject (and please, no "thank god lololol meele suxorz" flames)?

"made an option, but that'd be ideal. "Simple Melee" or "Advanced Melee" in the server options"


I dont think it would be absurd to ask for this... we can ask nicely it would be up to them, I dont like this melee much, I never sucked at it but its too dry and i like to be soaked...

Yeah I can understand why some don't like it. But still. I'm worried it'll end up with a DMZ-esque system instead.

I'd have to agree. I don't think it'll end up like DMZ... I have no doubt that Advanced melee will kick plenty of ass. Still though, I'd like to see the simple or advanced melee option available to servers with the release of 1.2 . With the improvements in the 1.1 code, simple melee will be the best it can be, and I look forward to that. I'm sure the community will have plenty of members and servers to support two options without much trouble come 1.2 .

However, aren't we starting this suggestion thread a bit early? I mean 1.1 hasn't even been released yet.

I hope they dont make it too complicated cuz then people with high pings will suffer, but i am looking forward to it. The switch between simple and advanced melee is a good idea, cuz the way i see esf is like its a pick up and play melee brawl, if it becomes too complicated then it might put some people off. And plz dont make it like dmz's combat system.

Oh, and the current melee system does require skill, try saying it doesn't after playing an experienced player, then we will see

the ability to alternate with simple or advanced melee when starting a server would be a very nice feature. I am very fond of the current melee system (even if i do get my ass handed to me by a select few players ) but i am also interested to see how the advanced melee system will turn out in 1.2 (sometime in the future ). I, much like everyone else here, do not want to see something implemented that is alike dmz's style of play, but i don't doubt that the esf team will pull off something that will amaze everyone. it will take some time for people to get used to im sure, but still, im looking forward to seeing how it turns out

Its will begreat to do those combos liek the show but WITH OUT a combo system like DMZs kinda like JK2 liek whern u go one way and swnign yr lightsaber it does a move and that could be great for ESF but it coulkd be to hard other then that i dont want to see a melee like DMZs i just dont liek it

Yeah but JK2 was swinging a saber around. There's a big difference between the punch and kick melee combat of DBZ and the direction and angle a lightsaber was swung. besides, JK2 1.4 has too much autoblocking (view the source, in heavy stance you literally block 100% of all incoming attacks unless you are swinging yourself...hehe, used to be a JK2 junkie. lol).

It would be very difficult to implement a JK2 style melee system in ESF, I think that much is obvious, although unfortunate.

And to Sonic: yeah, I know it's early and all, but I just was curious as to what others thought on the subject. I personally have great faith in the team (after all, beta 1 is total ownage), but I'm just worried that any sort of basic click to punch/kick system is going to invariably draw similar methods from DMZ's fighting engine. And I think we can all mutually agree that we don't want that.

the only time this meely sux is when ppl use it ALL the time non stop that is when it sux. It is a good idear 4 the meely but ppl are stupid with it

the meely sux when ppl use it all the time and think they are gd cos of it, it is a gd idear but needs 2 b sorted out. the jk2 idear would be sweet that is coo

ok im nto a mod but i do knwo this dont dubble post just use the edit button cuz i know u dont want a warnign form a mod so theres yr heads up

jk2 wasnt very speedy though
i agree the melee shouldnt be messed up too far to the point of a wanna be beatupper
maybe another attack button for soft attacks would be nice (they wouldnt fly away)
so you can position them to be swatted away right, but they need to fix the blocking and spamming of that but i am bored now and you can decide a solutiion if you like the idea

Originally posted by Sonic Boyster
I'd have to agree. I don't think it'll end up like DMZ... I have no doubt that Advanced melee will kick plenty of ass. Still though, I'd like to see the simple or advanced melee option available to servers with the release of 1.2 . With the improvements in the 1.1 code, simple melee will be the best it can be, and I look forward to that. I'm sure the community will have plenty of members and servers to support two options without much trouble come 1.2 .

However, aren't we starting this suggestion thread a bit early? I mean 1.1 hasn't even been released yet.

Click to expand...

Maybe they are, but my main focus has changed to 1.2 . ^_^

About the melee system, if im correct on what you call the dmz melee system. No, it wont be like that. But then again, I havent played it in awhile for obviouse reasons. Also theres one other plain fact, the melee system planned for esf is only " planned " not coded yet. If we were to tell you how it was planned then it ends up bad or buggy then going with something else you may get pissed. Then also the fact if it works correctly it would be a nice nugget of info thats best left for release.

Damn , i gotta get into the inner circle of the esf ppl

The only problem about not telling us anything bout the new system is that they might spring it on us and it may suck, like dmz (dont assasinate me). If that is the case i will probibally stop playing ESF. What im more concerned about now is how they are going to deal with that DAMN kamehameha, but thats not the issue here.

They are changing some things about melee in beta 1.1, ping will no longer determine if u win a head on melee dash anymore, yay to all laggers out there!

Okay, acouple things...
1) We know some of you do love the current melee system, so we are (planned awhile ago) making a server option to choose between simple + advanced melee.
2) What do you guys call a "dmz system", im not getting what you guys are talking about.
3) We arnt showing you guys the melee system for acouple reasons
------a) It took us several months to plan out
------b) We dont want anyone stealing the idea
4) If it sucks, we will change it so it doesnt suck The last thing we need is you guys giving us all hell about it after we break our ass over it
5) The write out is pretty advanced, most of you guys probably wouldnt even understand it, or just think its too complex.
6) Beta 1.2 wont take a rediculous amount of time, its only a melee system.

Also, the main reason for this new melee system is because we want something that takes longer then 12 hours to master. We want a real melee system were you learn techniques as you go on, melee powerstruggling, slams, punches, kicks, and all of the other DBZ goodies.

Oh yeah, i would also like to note that the beta 1.2's melee system is still in the planning phases. We will start working on it the day after beta 1.1 releases(beta 1.1 release day = Party time).
And i think that should be it... I think you guys will like it, my personal goal is to make it feel like real DBZ melee, and give the user as much control as possible.

Whoa... lol... Thats a relief.... Sounds cool ... Good luck with it ... You probably dont need it tho :S....

Originally posted by Pcjoe
1) We know some of you do love the current melee system, so we are (planned awhile ago) making a server option to choose between simple + advanced melee.

Click to expand...

Can I just make a little suggestion here PcJoe? Maybe keeping the old melee as a different selectable attack right next to the new melee would be a good idea. lets you mix it up a little...

:yes::yes: Yay.... Me likes that idea too....
Like Piccolo's scattershot and kiblast... ...
But wouldnt the tossing and stuff be a little confusing? I mean, theres only 3 buttons on your mouse! mouse 3 2 and 1... unless you have a 5 button mouse...

Originally posted by Miroku
Can I just make a little suggestion here PcJoe? Maybe keeping the old melee as a different selectable attack right next to the new melee would be a good idea. lets you mix it up a little...

Click to expand...

No, sorry, that wont work out. It has to be one or the other. With the new melee system you wont beable to slam the other user across the level instantly, it will be more involving. And knowing people, they want the quick + dirty way to kill people.

But damn, you guys are quick. I post, go downstairs to say hi to mom ( 1-2 minutes ), and there are 3 replies, lol.

Yeah, that is true, makes it more skillful, and less whining about always flying accross the level. At least the server option to choose simple and complex will keep me happy.