Counter Confusion

I'm not sure I understand counters. I've looked around the forums but there doesn't seem to be any explaination for this:
When can a counter take place?

If I stop blocking and right click right after I get hit, they swat me away again. If I wait too long they are either gone or blocking. A lot of the time they hit my block and teleport right after, in that case, what the hell is the use of the counter?

The tutorail states that after they hit you when you are blocking, you stop blocking and right click to counter. This-does-not-work! It also states that when they hit a blocking opponent, they wil be stunned and open for a counter. This-is-not-true! they can teleport right after and hit you again if you stop blocking. That doesn't sound too stunned to me.

I need an official soruce to attend to these questions. this seems to be one of the keys to being good at melee, but no one has explained it! If I am wrong, explain it to me! And if these are thing that simply need to be fixed in the next version let us know.

If you time it all correctly it works, teleporting is the only thing that saves the person from a counter, which is the way around blocking. But the counter will work you just have to do it all quickly.

Ok, but that doesn't tell me how to do it. I'm sure if I time everything perfect I'd allways win. WHEN and HOW EXACTLY do I counter? And why does the tutorial talk about the attacker being stunned when this is clearly not the case.

well you could try moving around and not waiting for people to hit you just so you can hit them back. just a thought. swoop IS there for a reason

Pain said:

well you could try moving around and not waiting for people to hit you just so you can hit them back. just a thought. swoop IS there for a reason

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Wow. Thanks. I didn't know you could do that. I guess counter IS'NT there for a reason. They must have no purpose since I should only fight one way. What was I thinking?

you think you might be able to actually ANSWER the question?

heavy sarcasm noted

there is a .8 second delay before you can strike back
its put there for a reason

you are asking for a bug that lets you counter

ever think of that?
so your right

Darksun said:

counter IS'NT there for a reason.

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Pain said:

well you could try moving around and not waiting for people to hit you just so you can hit them back.

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heavy sarcasm noted; and all that jazz.

you are asking for a bug that lets you counter

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so you can't really counter? I'm guessing that the word "counter" isn't the right word for the game, since a counter is a move that turns an attack directly against the attacker(alpha counter=SFA, counter=tekken, deadangle=GGX) or does something simmilar. I know this isn't a fighting game, but when I hear "counter" I think of what I know.

there is a .8 second delay before you can strike back

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So basicly, use block to block then get outta there? don't really bother with the whole counter thing.

everything I'm hearing so far has told me that the flash tutorial is, in fact, wrong. Is that true?

ok, heres a few examples of a counter i guess.

Someone swoops at you - you teleport above, them swoop down upon them.

You swoop at someone and then stop and quickly teleport above them (not really a counter, but its good)

Two people are swooping at each other, you can go under them, swoop upwards, spin round and hit them (adds confusion to a less experienced player)

Theres quite alot of things you can try.

Ok, I'll try those out, see how I do.

I think i'm begining to understand, there isn't really a counter "feature" as stated in the tutorial.

Darksun said:

Ok, I'll try those out, see how I do.

I think i'm begining to understand, there isn't really a counter "feature" as stated in the tutorial.

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yeah, you got that right. In 1.0 there was a counter-block which hit the opponent back as soon as they hit you in a block posistion, but it was considered very lame, so they put a 0.8 second stun onto the blocker in 1.1

Basically, you have to make you own counters up combining the swoop, teleport and block controls. You can really get some nice moves done.

Ah! thank you! you have help me more than anyone in understanding this!

No, you can counter after you block someone. When they attack you and you block, you let go of block and hit your melee attack. You'll get the first hit becuase they have a 0.8 second delay. Sometimes you miss and they'll whap you again. But yes, you can do a block counter, and it's not a bug. If they teleport away, tough luck, you're not always going to pull it off. There's always a way around something.

All in all if they attack, you block, and they dont teleport away, you can attack them, and that's considered the counter.

actually i know what he is talking about, this happens to me quite often on some servers, they will hit me and i let go of block and hit secondary attack RIGHT after i let go of block and they STILL hit me, it happens on a few servers but i also find this better because it gives me a chance to get my teleporting skills up (which i need lol) but there is my 2 cents

Yes, that's the bug, and he wants to know if you can do it legit, which you can.

I noticed playing bots you have to wait untill there melee attack is completely done...cant tell ya what that looks like cuz it can be different for every character....basically watch...its takes about 2 secs to finish...so I just leave block on while holding the attack button...wait 2 sec then release block.

Phatslugga said:

All in all if they attack, you block, and they dont teleport away, you can attack them, and that's considered the counter.

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I've done that against bots. It doesn't allways work. why? becuse some time they don't TRY to hit me away. At anyrate, this .8 sec stun for the attack does not exsist. I know, cuz bots can hit you durring that time.

Ok, when someone blocks, if the attacker has more ki he will hit you down when you open you block to try and hit him. If the attacker has less ki than the blocker, the blocker will hit the attacker away. Tadaa simple (or atleast its what ive heard)

I like to block people, teleport above them and then hit them on the head. Its not too often that people expect the blocker to teleport away.

hmm. interesting. ok, I'll see what I can do, thanks.

Darksun said:

I've done that against bots. It doesn't allways work. why? becuse some time they don't TRY to hit me away. At anyrate, this .8 sec stun for the attack does not exsist. I know, cuz bots can hit you durring that time.

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the .8 delay does exist, but think about it, that's less than one second, it doesn't feel like there's a delay at all, but have you ever just sat next to someone block and held the attack button? You'll notice that you dont keep on attacking, you wait almost one second inbetween each attack witch is about just enought time for the average reaction to catch. It doesn't always work, and it's not becuase it's buggy or not well implemented, if it doesn't work there can be a number of factors that play into the miss. Where you're aiming, range, timing, etc..
The Ki system Jones brought up is correct, only partially, becuase after someone attacks he still has to wait .8 seconds before he can attack again, so regardless of your ki you can nail him before that time is up. But remember it's less than a second so if you don't do it quick enough and his delay ends, it then is taken to the ki system.