DBZ physics

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well, here's another suggestion that will (most likely) be refused....

1) explosions: should push you away, unless you press block while looking within the vacinity of the explosion your next to, there should be some damage delt even when blocking but reduced slightly (maybe 30-70% based on the power of the attack and your powerlevel), add some dust (like when you charge your ki over water or when you swoop across the floor) at least an option for the higher end computers. Huge explosions like a fully charged kamehameha should not just explode expand and contract, they should expand stabilse a bit and then either contract or slowly disapear, because i never saw an explosion contract in dbz.

2) Jumping, shouldnt be so slow on the jump upwards, because it would be useful if you could actually jump outta the way of things, and please dont say thats why we have teleport, because im trying to make suggestions about how to make ESF more like DBZ.

3)Beams shouldnt be so..... bendy..... its ok how it is now but you draw squiggles in the air, where as in DBZ the beams are smoothly directed

4)Powerlevel should detirmine speed, to a certain degree

5)(an option for higher end computers) when a beam is fired close to the ground it should have the same dust effect as swoop does.... but im not sure about this but it'd be more realistic

thats it for now, i might post more if i think of em
 
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1.) Everything in #1 except for the explosions is already in the game. I doubt the explosives could be handled that way in Half Life either.

2.) The faster you jump, the higher you go. That's how physics works. How would super high jumps be any more useful or less abusable than the current jumping system?

3.) You are forgetting the Goku's Kame vs. Radditz scene. Beams are directable like that on the show, they just are rarely directed that way, because most of the time their opponents are too stupid to move out of the way anyway.

4.) I disagree. Saiyans shouldn't be the best at everything.

5.) Previously suggested. I don't know what the team thinks about it.
 
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"1.) Everything in #1 except for the explosions is already in the game. I doubt the explosives could be handled that way in Half Life either." I have never been pushed by an explosion before (not noticable to me) I never seen dust clouds, or seen the explosion expand and gradually disapear instead of contract. and ive never been able to block an explosion if it hits the ground and im next to it (eg a spirit bomb missing you 2 teleports away still deals a little damage if you hold block)

"2.) The faster you jump, the higher you go. That's how physics works. How would super high jumps be any more useful or less abusable than the current jumping system?" Thats my point, at the moment you jump up at the same speed as the gravity pulls you down, which is wrong, you should be jumping upwards faster (eg jedi knight 1, you jump fast upwards but you fall at the pace gravity pulls you down)

"3.) You are forgetting the Goku's Kame vs. Radditz scene. Beams are directable like that on the show, they just are rarely directed that way, because most of the time their opponents are too stupid to move out of the way anyway." i dont think you understand what im saying, im saying, keep how it is now, but make the beam trails smoother, because the curves in the beams in DBZ arent as jagged.... if you get wat i mean?

eg, curent beam:

/
\
/
\
O

DBZ beam:

(
-)
(
-)
O

The curves in the dbz beam are much more gradual, but i am nitpicking :S

"4.) I disagree. Saiyans shouldn't be the best at everything" I dont understand what you mean by this? all species in DBZ speed increases along side their powerlevel, because their power level is a measure of strength speed and ki

5) fair nuff :]

I hope that clears up what i meant
 
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I think Sonic means that sayians will have an advantage because of their high powerlevel when they start ... well compared to Krillin and others I mean ... meaning that they cant catch up and + their speed they surely wont chatch up ... meaning unbalance = bad :\
 
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davidskiwan said:
I have never been pushed by an explosion before (not noticable to me) I never seen dust clouds, or seen the explosion expand and gradually disapear instead of contract. and ive never been able to block an explosion if it hits the ground and im next to it (eg a spirit bomb missing you 2 teleports away still deals a little damage if you hold block)
There *are* dust trails. Try swooping over the water/ground. If you have dusttrails set to 0 then it will be off, but it is on by default.

Explosions push you back when you aren't blocking. If somebody detonates a beam next to you, you get pushed backwards. It isn't always obvious because you usually don't pay attention to that kind of thing. As for blocking things that hit the ground... I didn't see that in your original post.

"2.) The faster you jump, the higher you go. That's how physics works. How would super high jumps be any more useful or less abusable than the current jumping system?" Thats my point, at the moment you jump up at the same speed as the gravity pulls you down, which is wrong, you should be jumping upwards faster (eg jedi knight 1, you jump fast upwards but you fall at the pace gravity pulls you down)
Doesn't feel that way to me... it isn't much off if it is off.

"3.) You are forgetting the Goku's Kame vs. Radditz scene. Beams are directable like that on the show, they just are rarely directed that way, because most of the time their opponents are too stupid to move out of the way anyway." i dont think you understand what im saying, im saying, keep how it is now, but make the beam trails smoother, because the curves in the beams in DBZ arent as jagged.... if you get wat i mean?

eg, curent beam:

/
\
/
\
O

DBZ beam:

(
-)
(
-)
O

The curves in the dbz beam are much more gradual, but i am nitpicking :S
Right. The beams in ESF curve too, if you let them. But no, in the Goku vs. Radditz fight, Goku made his kame make sharp-ish turns. If you want turns that are more smooth looking you could use slower beams. Otherwise we'd have to make all of the beams bulkier and less controllable.

"4.) I disagree. Saiyans shouldn't be the best at everything" I dont understand what you mean by this? all species in DBZ speed increases along side their powerlevel, because their power level is a measure of strength speed and ki
Saiyans have a bigger PL multiplier than everyone else (except for Krillin, who *QUICKLY* loses most of his power after transformation anyway), so that would give them the biggest speed advantage of each of the races.
I hope that clears up what I meant.
 
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yeah that pretty much cleared it up, but in my opinion the only 2 things i'd be glad of is (1) and (2) because i dont think some of the the things are noticable enough with the explosions, and it really bugs me the way you jump now.... and i know about dust trails its just i think they should come from explosions as well...
 
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davidskiwan said:
[...] at the moment you jump up at the same speed as the gravity pulls you down, which is wrong, you should be jumping upwards faster (eg jedi knight 1, you jump fast upwards but you fall at the pace gravity pulls you down)
eh ... please goto school and learn how real physics work ... if you jump faster, you jump higher ... these are not changeable physics rules ... the DBZ guys just break it and float then ... reproduce this with teleporting upwards

davidskiwan said:
3)Beams shouldnt be so..... bendy..... its ok how it is now but you draw squiggles in the air, where as in DBZ the beams are smoothly directed
laggs ?!?!?!?! FPS ?!?!?!?! HL-engine ?!?!?! <-- I think this should have cleared this suggetion

davidskiwan said:
all species in DBZ speed increases along side their powerlevel, because their power level is a measure of strength speed and ki
not really ... if you train hard, you get more strength ... and you didn't become faster ... imagine USSJ Trunks ... he became 2-3 times stronger ... but he was much slower then and couldn't beat Cell
second: it would be unfair to the weaker ones ... because the stronger ones would get an advantage ... use this advantage and become stroger and stronger ... so the game is unbalanced

davidskiwan said:
(an option for higher end computers) when a beam is fired close to the ground it should have the same dust effect as swoop does.... but im not sure about this but it'd be more realistic
not every beam over the ground caused dusttrails !!! remember in Gokus Kame vs Radditz ... did it ?
these dusttrails were only added in DBZ to show the new most powerful attack
 
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jumping physics, do you know what your talking about? to jump 20-50 ft in the air with a 200pound man you will have to use a lot of force, much greater than the force of gravity, therefore you will go upwards faster, and come down with the speed of gravity, eg, you shoot a slingshot catapult into the air, it wont go up at the same speed that it will fall down, it will go up much faster, but the speed on the fall down wont be as fast. Look how high you jump in esf, you must go fast to go that high, because the force must be great to get them that high, and when they fall they will fall at the pace of gravity. You cannot jump upwards at the same speed as gravity and go that high, it is impossible, otherwise we would all jump to school/work.

"laggs ?!?!?!?! FPS ?!?!?!?! HL-engine ?!?!?! <-- I think this should have cleared this suggetion" umm it would cause less lag if you did what i suggested because im saying that beams shouldnt be so squiggly

"not really ... if you train hard, you get more strength ... and you didn't become faster ... imagine USSJ Trunks ... he became 2-3 times stronger ... but he was much slower then and couldn't beat Cell
second: it would be unfair to the weaker ones ... because the stronger ones would get an advantage ... use this advantage and become stroger and stronger ... so the game is unbalanced" The slowness of ussj trunks was a side effect of ussj, and i think that ussj is still faster than ssj. Like i said before, powerlevel is a measure of Speed and power and ki, they arent all the same, and plus, if the characters have a lower powerlevel then their speed modifier could be higher, wouldnt that solve the problem?


"these dusttrails were only added in DBZ to show the new most powerful attack" hmm i suppose, but sum times it would look better, dontcha think?
 
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well i do think that there has to be something done about the beams since u now can clearly see the X in them (wasnt like that in 1.0)
 
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davidskiwan said:
jumping physics, do you know what your talking about? to jump 20-50 ft in the air with a 200pound man you will have to use a lot of force, much greater than the force of gravity, therefore you will go upwards faster, and come down with the speed of gravity, eg, you shoot a slingshot catapult into the air, it wont go up at the same speed that it will fall down, it will go up much faster, but the speed on the fall down wont be as fast. Look how high you jump in esf, you must go fast to go that high, because the force must be great to get them that high, and when they fall they will fall at the pace of gravity. You cannot jump upwards at the same speed as gravity and go that high, it is impossible, otherwise we would all jump to school/work.
No... actually gravity is a steady pull towards the ground... it accelerates you. There is no "pace" of gravity. If you throw a ball up into the air, whatever speed it was going up when you released it is the exact same speed (save for wind resistance) that it will be traveling in the opposite direction when it reaches that point as it falls back down. Whatever speed you jump up will always be the same speed that you fall back down. If you made a diagram of your movement as you jumped over a puddle or something like that it would make a perfect arc.
 
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i dont think so, the movement is a parabola, not a curve
 
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Speaking of Krillin, what the hell? I mean after Krillin transforms he's EXTREMELY fast AND strong! It's ridiculous! But it's funny too ;)
 
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davidskiwan said:
i dont think so, the movement is a parabola, not a curve
Parabolas are curves. Grivity accelerates objects towards the ground which means you get parabolas when you draw out a diagram of an objects displacement. That doesn't change the fact that the object is moving the same speed on the way up as it is coming back down. Objects decellerate on the way up at the same rate that they accelerate on the way down. They start off moving upwards at a certain speed, decellerate to zero, then accelerate back to the speed they were moving on the way up by the time they reach the position they started off in.

And I dont know why the hell this text is in black...
 
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LoL, Sonic is right, I'm in Physics so I know this to be true. You tell 'em Sonic :p
 
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Its also called balance :p ... and Krillin is a badass hacker anyway ;) :p


edit: posted at same time as the 2 spammers ... erm gentelmen above me ;)
 
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oh ok, but objects do reach a max accelleration towards the earth... but it still doesnt change the fact, that they jump too slow in esf to go that high, its imposible, you still have to have a great enough velocity to get that high, and in esf it doesnt, and thats what im getting at....
 
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if you trow a stone upwards ... it slower down with 9,81 m/s² til it sank to 0 ... then the stone falls downside and accerelrate with 9,81m/s² again ... so it has EXACTLY the same speed from the point you started trowing as the speed he has at this point while falling down
these are physics ... so is coded every (good) engine ...
if your faster jump would be implemented, the coder has to code that the player brakes after a few seconds again (lower the velocity) ... this would look realistic
the second way would be to increase gravity for this player during jumping an decreasing it again during falling ... but I don't think this is supported by HL engine

about the
"laggs ?!?!?!?! FPS ?!?!?!?! HL-engine ?!?!?! <-- I think this should have cleared this suggetion" umm it would cause less lag if you did what i suggested because im saying that beams shouldnt be so squiggly
erm ... it would cause more laggs, because currently there's a timer which creates every X ms a new point (there is no curve possible for the PC) and that's why it isn't looking perfect smoothly ... you have to imagine that these rails are sprites ... sprites are 2D ... so you would have to make every curve with hundreds of parts of the sprite ... this WOULD cause more laggs and WOULD cause lower FPS and making it smoothly automatically isn't supported by the HL engine (is it by any engine ???)
just increase the beam quality and be happy
 
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"erm ... it would cause more laggs, because currently there's a timer which creates every X ms a new point (there is no curve possible for the PC) and that's why it isn't looking perfect smoothly ... you have to imagine that these rails are sprites ... sprites are 2D ... so you would have to make every curve with hundreds of parts of the sprite ... this WOULD cause more laggs and WOULD cause lower FPS and making it smoothly automatically isn't supported by the HL engine (is it by any engine ???)
just increase the beam quality and be happy"

What i was trying to say was that there should be less of these x coordinates, so it didnt squiggle, and moved slower but smoother

And the gravity thing, if you shoot a shell directly upwards in the air, it will come down slower than it went up, because for one thing, all falling things fall at the same speed, but air resistance will keep it at a steady speed eventually depending on the surface area.... and force on the shell at the start of going upwards is much more than the force of gravity, therefore its speed is greater on the way up untill there isnt enough energy to over come the force of gravity.... i think anyway
 

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