A big "Kamehameha" to Beam Spam: Detailed Idea Inside

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Okay. I didn't see a lot of beam spamming last night, thank christ, but what I did see was a lot of potential for it. One guy had a powerlevel that was MUCH higher than everyone else's and in all honesty it wouldn't have been difficult for him to have kame'd us all to hell. It got me to thinking about the gameplay style of many players...and you know, how they play like total *******s. Not just beam spam but all the little BS tactics in general (the guy I mentionmed earlier hit me twice every time he hit me, and with ease, too...and someone in the server named esfn00b who was asking how to beam jump was able to do it to me too). So I decided that maybe it's time to really start to consider ways to bottleneck players away from using the lamer tactics, and I have had this variant on a popular anti beam-spam idea for a long time now, so here goes:

The Problem: Sitting in a corner miles away firing beams can be much more beneficial and productive to a less experienced or less melee-oriented player than any other form of attack.

Now, it's not to say that people who use the beams a lot are a problem. But there are some people who abuse the fact that an SSJ kamehameha can do some serious damage. And subsequently, since it comes off as more effective than melee for them, they sit and fire away.

The Solution: To understand and develop a solution to a problem, we need to understand the problem. The simple fact is that after a point the beams are powerful enough that they require little to no caution when in use. You get massive power and a safe distance every time you fire until someone notices you.

The trick is simple enough. It's been suggest many times that the beams become weaker with each consecutive use. That seems like a good idea but there are drawbacks and holes with that overly simplified solution. So here's my idea: a slight delay along with the lowering power of the beams. There's a lot of variables involved, so here goes. (Please, also bear in mind that this applies only to the higher power attacks--FF, Kame, BBA, SBC, etc.)

Situation: You are SSJ Gohan. You've just fired a massive kamehameha wave. It missed.
Current Result: Recharge, re-fire until achieving desired effect.
Idea-based Result: The player is going to charge up and fire again if the first attack wasn't a money shot. To make it simple, the game will have a simple delay of not even a full couple of seconds. If you try to immediately perform the move again within say...4 seconds, for the sake of argument. The character will play a sound that is one of those doubtful phrases, like "I don't have the energy to keep up with this guy!" or one of those types of things. Long story short, you wouldn't be able to CONSTANTLY refire. This way, there would be some sort of detriment to using beams repeatedly (you would have a period of minor vulnerability that would make it longer slightly in order to fire a consecutive blast). Think of it like this: each time you fire, the beam will take slightly longer to begin charging.

Situation: You are SSJ Gohan. You've just fired a massive kamehameha wave. It hit an enemy and killed his sorry ass instantly.
Current Result: Easy money. "Keep firing, *******s!" No penalty to bear, so why do anything else? Stick with what works.
Idea-based Result: Okay. Here's where the power differential comes in. Your big beam missing would not make the next one you fire actually get weaker. Instead, it would be based on the killspam, in a way. For each enemy you kill with your beam, THEN the next consecutive beam you fire will be weakened slightly. The idea is simple enough; the more guys you kill with that beam, the less damage it will do (and possibly it could be made to suck up even more ki each time as well). Keep in mind: This is NOT an effect that happens for every kame you fire in a row!! Instead, it is something be considered everytime you big-beam someone and they die. The number would have to be a reduction in a chunkish percentage like 10% or 15%. And if your blast kills multiple enemies, the effect would stack, making your next beam a longer, more expensive charge for notably less damage. Different beams could have different properties (since the FF uses so much juice, it could have less of a damage reduction and more of a ki reduction, etc.). This effect would of course reset each time you use the beam freshly (as in, after attacking an enemy with another move such as melee or generic beam, etc.)

New Problem: What's to stop me from switching to a different move, then switching back to the beam, and avoiding this penalty effect entirely?
Solution: The technical design of this system will make the changes in damage portion of it dependent on the kills. If you get two or more kills in a row with the same "bigbeam," the game will alter the damage by the appropriate percentages until you obtain a kill by another means; this spells out to the bottom line that beam spamming will eventually lead you to have powerless beams that drain your ki too much for too little damage. The charge time principle is also fundamentally difficult to avoid: if you fire the same bigbeam a few or several times in a row, then the charge time will be penalized more each time. Whether you switch to another weapon or not (which might make it a pain to code, but it'd be necessary); the charge will be penalized if you fire off the particular bigbeam of your choice multiple times. It would also have to ignore swooping and only count actual melee contact, otherwise just swooping for a second would dodge the penalty as well.

What do you guys think?
 
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works for me.... i dont think they ever beam spammed in the show anyway lol
 
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This confused the hell out of me but I get what you're saying. I got a bit lost in the who problem/solution but the end results would appear to be more balanced gameplay (melee and beams not one or the other) and would discourage beam spammers. And i'm all for both of these.
The only thing is that I would say is not to reduce beam damage by much but increase the ki cost of repititive moves so as to force quick firers to spend longer recharging and be more vunerable to balanced players.
 
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  • make another bar which can be charged up very fast, along with the ki bar
    lets say - a STAMINA bar? it charges up real fast
  • every time you use energy attacks both the stamina and ki bar will decrease
    the stamina lets say 4X faster? and the ki 1.5X slower then default(current)
  • if the stamina bar runs out, then the speed the ki bar will decrease will be
    2X faster then the default(current esf beta 1.2.0 speed)
  • this concerns any kind of attack!
  • when you use pure ki and have no stamina, the weapon will charge slower
    and the dmg will be smaller as well.
  • melee will take some stamina too, but very little of it, though as in esf1.2.0 NO KI AT ALL
  • when you are in adv. melee mod the stamina bar wont be recharged, maybe it will
    but if it will then not as fast as it will be regulary!(lets say 3X slower)

I think this would prevent beam spamming and is a better idea then the one
suggested a lot of times to use hp when the ki runs out
similar, but a better one with no hp loss.
 
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That's a whole lot more math involved for the bar, though. THe delay between shots wouldn't have to be visual...it could just be that the charge bar doesn't start charging right away, and it plays a sound effect.

Maybe I missed the point but the stamina bar thing doesn't seem that much simpler to me.
 
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I think the penalty should be for all beams including generic (maybe not burning attack that would suck) cause beamspam is also when you swoop at someone and he blasts you with generic balls until you die right?
 
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Ehh...that's not really that big of a problem. I already thought of that, too, though:

Ki blasts bounce off of swooping players doing half damage. I don't thinkt eh weaker beams should be covered because I think that it's a viable tactic to hit an incoming enemy with the weak beam, one that isn't overused or really exploited. Plus after you do it once the opponent is fully prepared for it next swoop.
 
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thats not really beam spam i mean if your pl is like and your fireing yellow attacks and such then thats beam spam beam spamming if just standing of in a corner firing any biga** beam at ppl personaly i dont like the idea no offense kinda makes it sound like your trying to slow it down a little more
 
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Why have beams?
No-one appears to like them.

If you have a high powerlevel, its like your forbidden to use them.
If you do, even use it once, people say ur a beam spammer...

Beams are becoming more and more unpopular, when their a great way to attack...

In the show, frieza wouldn't say,
"hey, im strong, i wont use a beam attack, i may kill someone, they would be mad....
i'll just go along and attack them head on..."

what does vegeta always say?
"dont attack head-on"

in other words... leave beams how they r....
 
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I'm not really asking if you like the idea or not, just if you think it would accomplish the goal.

There's only one time in all of DBZ that's even remotely comparable to the beam spam we see every day in ESF, and that was when Piccolo fired a second special beam cannon in a row at Raditz. Well, do you remember how much harder and longer it took him to focus up that second one?

You've probably never been killed ten times in a row by a guy you haven't even seen in game. It makes for uber-annoyance, number one...and number two, you end up having people who barely know how to play getting 534 kills a game.
 
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Thats a good point u got there. The chars on dbz chose to fight how they did. The players here have a choise and they should do whatever they want. However, everything has its limits.
 
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more ki cost, there go's vegeta's ff.
it's hard inough that there are char's that neads a lot of ki just to stay alive.
and not everyone likes the whole melee, so they use beams(i do most of the time)
btw, then beamstruggle would be useles becours you have no ki left to struggle.
i don't like the idea at all, the ki cost must be redused not higher.
 
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You're right though there should still be something. Maybe slower charge (ofcourse slower KI cost)
 
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This is where a stamina bar could come into play.
The more its used up, the harder it is to do things.
I mean a melee swoop would take a small amount of it, much less than the KI bar is beieng drained. But with constant use of it without rest, you will have some problems.
 
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I like the idea, but I believe having the stamina bar in there to show it as a visual is a must. When I play seriously, and I'm fighting someone, I'm very defensive. I'm probably a 50% beams, 50% melee player. I usually beamjump away from them when I need to charge up, and at the right times, I'll charge up a big beam to suprise them with. I'd need the bar there to know for sure, whether or not, my next beam was coming out. I'd hate trying to do it and then hear " I don't have enough energy!". The idea is good, I think the bar is a must.
 
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/me gets excited cause pplz like meh's idea! ;) :p


SSJ3 Goten said:
In the show, frieza wouldn't say,
"hey, im strong, i wont use a beam attack, i may kill someone, they would be mad....
i'll just go along and attack them head on..."

what does vegeta always say?
"dont attack head-on"
omfg that was sooo funny man hehehehe good one


SaiyanPrideXIX said:
I'm not really asking if you like the idea or not, just if you think it would accomplish the goal.
which I do btw(like the idea that is), just made a line shorted version ( with lots of math on it )
as the way I see it
I hope you arent pissed cause you think I might try to still credit on an idea
WHICH I WONT! lol

SaiyanPrideXIX said:
There's only one time in all of DBZ that's even remotely comparable to the beam spam we see every day in ESF, and that was when Piccolo fired a second special beam cannon in a row at Raditz. Well, do you remember how much harder and longer it took him to focus up that second one?

You've probably never been killed ten times in a row by a guy you haven't even seen in game. It makes for uber-annoyance, number one...and number two, you end up having people who barely know how to play getting 534 kills a game.

ermm.... about the pic example - thats cause he had less then 1K pl
and he got tired real fast, and cause he lost his arm, and cause he already fought raditz and stuff...
I mean he is practicly waisted (anyways the 2nd one killed raditz so... w\e
lol, bad example for you then hehehehe)

first thing - I really dunno why but its hard to get your point cleared
please (not as an insult, happens to me a lot) goto sleep or something and think this over again

lol, maybe its just me needs sleeping and Im the only one having hard time to get your point ( which somehow I managed to )

and about "math is bad!!!" thingy...
think of esf's poor coder... I dont think that none math thingies would be easily codable
I mean all those variables and stuff... IT IS MATH MAN! lol
really... think about it!

3rd thing:


lol J/K
 
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Yeah but the thing is, a variable is a dynamic number. The equations work themselves.

Getting to the heart of the matter, however, I think people aren't understanding the gist of my idea. Maybe I wasn't clear about it. The whole goal is to make beam spam less rewarding. Using beams is fine, but are you honestly saying that you think it's fine to let people countlessly fling BBA's into the middle of your fights getting 2-5 kills at a time?

A few things to clarify:
--Nowhere did I mention a stamina bar or stamina or anything of the sort. My mention of playing a sound clip with a lame excuse for not shooting the beam again immediately after shooting a first time...it wouldn't have anything to do with a stamina bar or any sort of extra statistical calculations. For lack of a better example, it would simply be like the show: the characters takes a momentary breather before being able to fire the next blast. It would really be no different than the teleport delay.
--It should also be noted that I intended this idea to only apply to huge beams at lethal power levels...things like beam jumps and melee would be unaffected by these restrictions.

Let's further refine the idea, if it suits.

1.) The rules I stated would only be applied to beams that are capable of taking more than 100 hp worth of damage off of an opponent.
2.) OR alternately, it would only apply to people firing full-charge beams all the time (of course they would then fire just before full charge all the time making the whole thing a waste of effort)
3.) Personally I don't really like the idea of the bar. I think it wouldn't be bad, but for the most part I'd consider it useless (linked to my original idea, anyhow). It would be decent to have a stamina bar but it would just be one more meter for everyone to slut off of (meaning, they would be defensive until it was full all of the time anyhow). Relating to my idea, I don't think it'd be much use, because as I said...it wouldn't apply to most other uses for beams besides those over a certain level of destructive power at 2/3 or more charge.
 
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So just tag on a usage restriction like Frieza's primary laser, but one that goes away if you kill someone?
 
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I think thats about what he meant to say
omfg how did you do it sonic? thats amazing! shortened it by 95%!!!
can I get your autograph? lol

and back <big>on topic</big> to saiyaXXX - well then not a stamina bar, but something else visual
that pplz could see to know about how much energy they can still use it has to wait till the next time they can use it

(dont let this thread die, its a good suggestion)
 
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Maybe just make the player unable to move or shoot for the same time it took him to charge the attack.
 

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