Vegeta = teh gimp

I know this has been brought up before, but I don't want to revive old threads, and I don't remember if there was ever an answer.

Right now, I think Vegeta has the biggest disadvantage of all the characters in ESF.

Goku - great speed, variety of useful attacks, decent trans time

Piccolo - SBC, and eye-lasers, and scatter beam, decent trans time

Gohan - weak and slow, trans early

Trunks - also weak and slow, but he has a sword that helps in melee, trans early

Frieza - Lasers, disc, decent trans time

Buu - Very powerful in the beginning, Mouth Blast, candy beam, high trans PL but with candy beam not too bad

Cell - Is there any disadvantage to choosing cell?

Krillen - slow & weak, but has kamehameha, and scatterbeam helps long trans time.

Vegeta - ..... Gallit gun? Great after trans (if you can obtain it, and then maintain it, I rhymed, w\o/\o/t!)

Here's my beef with Vegeta. He is my favorite character, but he doesn't have much going for him. The only useful attack he has in his original form is the gallit gun, but it's not that powerful of a beam as it is, especially since he starts with less PL than than most characters. That's another thing, what's up with that, he should start off with at least a little more PL than goku. Not only would it be true to the show, but good for balancing reasons as well. His renzoku is good in theory, but no one stays down long enough to use it after a throw of a succesful melee hit to the ground. Not only that, it takes a LOT of ki to perform for a measly 6 balls. If that wasn't enough, the new trajectory of the ki balls makes it near impossible to hit someone in the air unless at the right distance. If you don't like the renzoku, you can't even use the regular ki balls like everyone else, it replaces them. In my opinion the renzoku should either be completley revamped, or scrapped. I think just a speed increase in the rate of fire for his ki balls would be better.

So, he starts off weak, and he doesn't have that many useful attacks in his original form.. that means that he must be a badass when transformed. Yes, he is, BUT it takes forever and a day to transform with him as he doesn't have an attack that really helps him trans fast like the rest of the characters that have high transformation PL's. It's not even the fact that his trans PL is high, but how much PL he loses each time he dies. It's crazy, once you trans with vegeta, you better not get caught by a stray beam, or killed in any other way, becuase if you do die, you'll be looking forward to another 3 minutes of getting his PL up.

Now, I know the team probably already knows all of this, and is planning to do something for him (please god, please), I was just wondering if we were going to see that any time soon, maybe 1.3, or 1.4 could balance the characters out more?

The only new attack I could come up with for vegeta, is the energy bind, (don't know the real name of the attack, so I made that name up, cool huh?)which I know has been brought up before, but I think it would work well with 1.2. The attack was used against Goku to fasten him against a mountain so Vegeta could beat him up real nice. I guess after hitting someone against a wall, you could fire it, and if the enemy doesn't have enough ki to jump off the wall (rather they just stick a little longer and then slide off) it binds him against the wall. This would give vegeta enough time to either do a few simple melee hits, or maybe even do a renzoku? The attack wouldn't work if the other player had enough ki to jump off the wall, only if they had no ki, it would then hold them against the wall for a longer period of time. If the attack was used and the other player had enough ki, then the binds would either dissipate, or there would be a cool animation of some sort. Just a quick thought for something in his regular form (Yes, I'm aware that he used it while he was SSJ2, but he really does need something new for his regular form). Vegeta = teh gimp, when everyone knows he should = teh pimp.

Or what about that one attack where Vegeta was shooting buu in half like 900 times b4 vegeta got his ass owned. He put his hands together like FInal flash but it was blue. I don't think he was SSJ doing it, but I could be wrong. THat would be a cool attack.

Yeah, that one. Get that one. The bind.. Go download warcraft 3 mod from CS and install it to ESF and wham, you got a green one. Just kidding bind would be cool. Except, amazingly over used.

Wtf does anyone ****ing listen to me when i make suggestions at all. I made a suggestion for Vegeta's attacks. I will say it again damnit.

The Bakuhatsu (or whatever the hell it is). Its an attack that just explodes. An instant explosion anywhere, the ground air wherever. I guess it could work like an invincible beam, or something.

Pl gain is *INCREASED* after the patch. Server averages will *rise* and you will transform faster.

Bakuhatsu Ha is not the name of the attack. Its called Shyougeki Ha.

Shyougeki Ha - Character's ability to cause long distance explosions by raising their fingertips. Who can perform it:Nappa, Piccolo Daimaou, Piccolo and Cell.

Bakuhatsu Ha is Ki blast attack Vegeta did to Buu in episode #221. He points out this three fingers at Buu and shoots the big Ki blast "Bakuhatsu Ha" which goes right through Buu.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/fleur/dbz/vegeta01.gif

Sonic Boyster said:

Pl gain is *INCREASED* after the patch. Server averages will *rise* and you will transform faster.

Click to expand...

That still doesnt mean **** there is a command stupid server admins don't set to off called "mp_plcatchup"

Damirith said:

Bakuhatsu Ha is not the name of the attack. Its called Shyougeki Ha.

Shyougeki Ha - Character's ability to cause long distance explosions by raising their fingertips. Who can perform it:Nappa, Piccolo Daimaou, Piccolo and Cell.

Bakuhatsu Ha is Ki blast attack Vegeta did to Buu in episode #221. He points out this three fingers at Buu and shoots the big Ki blast "Bakuhatsu Ha" which goes right through Buu.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/fleur/dbz/vegeta01.gif

Click to expand...

Where did u get that a Fan made DBZ site that doesnt have the correct japanese translation? Yes you did because Bakuhatsu (or whatever) translates to EXPLOSION. Because that is wtf it is an explosion


And thats two fingers I dont remember a THUMB being considered as a finger.

That pic is vegetas attack were he stuck goku to the wall int here fight in buu saga. the ring type things.

SSJ Shin Carl:

Really? I never knew that the thumb isnt a real finger. I guess you're right that the thumb isnt a finger so, that must mean that the pinky isnt one either. Wow, I never thought of it like that. Holy SH%$, that means that humans really only have 6 fingers! Ha and my school teachers thought I was dumb.

I just have one question then, when you were taught to count with your fingers, was 6 the highest number you could count up to? Im pretty sure the rest of us could get up to at least 10.

Also SSJ Shin Carl, I am right that its not Bakuhatsuha and really Shyougeki Ha. If you played BidforPower for Q3, Vegeta had an attack where he stuck his three fingers out (yes three, not two) and shot a slow moving but very powerful Ki blast and when you selected this attack, the name "Bakuhatsuha" appeared on the screen.

You can also check out this old thread for further proof.
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=41032

Snow1586:

You're wrong, that is the correct picture from #221.

When Vegeta does the ring attack to Goku in #215, he only has his pointer and middle finger sticking out at Goku. Also at that time, Vegeta had blood all over his face and body and he wasnt powered up with an aura around him.

In #221 when Vegeta does Bakuhatsuha to Buu, he has his thumb, pointer, and middle finger sticking out at Buu and there extended out in a triangle shape. Also, Vegeta had no blood on him because he was healed by a senzu bean that he took from Goku and he was powered up with an aura around him because he wanted the attack to finish off Buu.

Check out the picture again. Vegeta has three fingers (thumb, pointer, and middle) sticking out in a triangle shape, he isnt covered in blood, and he is powered up with an aura around him. So, it's clearly not from #215 but from #221. Just load up #221 and go to 5 minutes and 21 seconds into the episode. That is where Vegeta does Bakuhatsuha to Buu and that is where the picture is from.

Vegetto did a very similar attack to Buu also.


And Carl, are you that ill-minded about DBZ names? For god sakes half the series is named after vegetables.

Damirith I'm just surprised you haven't posted a link to vegetas problem thread:
http://forum.esforces.com/showthread.php?t=43816

Oh yea, sorry about that. Guys, check out that thread and support us on the NEED to change Renzoku to make Vegeta better.

Dumrith. NO

That is just a Debate between people who watch the show damn show. Bakuhatsu ha or whatever is an EXPLOSION. You playing Bid For Power on Q3 yes I played it too, well buddy it was WRONG. It was not correct it was wrong. Bakuhatsu Ha translates to Explosion therefore I am right, and we will seist discussing this since your so ill minded to listen.

Not only it wasn't correct it was also wrong! wow...
anyways you ahould check out that thread.

So because Bakuhatsu Ha translates to "explosion" so therefore you're right?

That must mean that if the name doesnt mean explosion, it doesnt explode. Im pretty sure that Kamehameha, Final Flash, Masenko, Makosen, Special Beam Cannon, ect. dont have "Bakuhatsu Ha" as part of their name. So that must beam that those attacks dont explode, right?

Did you know you can translate MasenKo into "Evil Flash"
Does that mean Masenko is a flash attack like Solar Flare?

Did you know you can translate Kamehameha into "Turtle Blast Wave"
Does that mean that the attack fires turtles out at your opponent?

Hey, Kamehameha has 5 syllables in it. SSJ Shin Carl must have to use both of his hands to count that sense we only have 3 fingers on each hand :laff:

Anyways, yea none of us are Japanese so its really anyones word over another. Anyone got the DVDs of the episodes with Nappa? If so, watch them in Jap with english subs and see if Nappa ever says "Bakuhatsu Ha" or "Shyougeki Ha" then tell us.

Damirith said:

Did you know you can translate Kamehameha into "Turtle Destruction Blast"
Does that mean that the attack fires turtles out at your opponent?

Click to expand...

No, that means that it destroys turtles! Turtle Destruction!

As for Shougekiha, it translates directly to shock wave, which would make sense also for the attack described.

Translating is fuuun. But it means squat. I mean, Gohan is a Saiyan, Goku's son. He's not a plate of cooked rice. And Piccolo is hardly a flute, unless he's a green flute with big muscles. (And this one time, at band camp...)

Anyways, back on the original topic, I do agree Vegeta needs more attacks. That bind thing might get a bit annoying, and you forgot to suggest amount of Ki or what so that it couldn't just be spammed every time you throw somebody into a mountain just to piss them off.

Damirith said:

Bakuhatsu Ha is not the name of the attack. Its called Shyougeki Ha.

Shyougeki Ha - Character's ability to cause long distance explosions by raising their fingertips. Who can perform it:Nappa, Piccolo Daimaou, Piccolo and Cell.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/fleur/dbz/vegeta01.gif

Click to expand...

this is vegetas version of the attack above
Zenshin kara no Shyougeki Ha-Same, but the user's arms and legs are spread out and the explosion extends in all directions. It's fairly powerful.
Who can perform it:Vegita and Fat Buu

HE doesnt say it I have the japanese tapes of the saiya-jin saga so of course I know.

Damirith why are you telling **** I already know? I know ALOT MORE about dbz then you do. Translating **** from japanese to english can come out with alot more translations because there are over 200 kanji symbols, but katakana is easier to translate with.

If it were my decision Vegeta would have all the attacks he actually used.

Galick Ho Gun
Big Bang Attack
Final Flash
Bakuhatsu Ha
That ring ****
Kienzan
Self Destruction
Renzoku

But the team for some odd reason won't do that.

Nabeshin, thats still your word (or really the word of a fan site) over mine.

I'll end the argument. At this point, NO ONE has any real proof of what they say the name of the attack is. This is all "I'm right becuase I'm better," "Im right becuase this is what this site says," and "I'm right becuase this is what it means translated."

The only way this will end, is if there is REAL evidence showing us the real name of the attack. So if you want to proof that you're right, then tell/show us a jap episode where the character says the real name, tell/show us where its written in the manga, or prove to us you're Akira Toriyama.

Other then that, everything else is still someones word agaisnt another.

Back on topic:

Well from that list, I can tell you that "That ring ****" attack wont be in ESF. It has been suggested over and over again and all those threads died becuase ESF never supported it. There would be no point to the attack and it would just get spammed.

As for his "Zenshin kara no Shyougeki Ha/Self Destruction" attack, I think that should be put in but it would never really be balanced. It would either be very powerful and just get spammed or too weak and no one would use it. It would be a good attack if there was some "rage system" put into ESF but, thats also been suggested over and over with no support from the ESF team.

first of all, bfp has ALL and realy ALL names and attacks good(exept the big bang attack)
and second, that attack that damirith showed "http://www.100megsfree4.com/fleur/dbz/vegeta01.gif" is the ultimate ki blast(the attack he shooted at goku on the tournament)

better look closer, i've checkt every name in bfp and they're all corect.
carry on

The attack wouldn't be spammed if it could only be used while your opponent had no ki to hop off the wall. It happens rarely but for the times it does, it could mean a free kill for vegeta. The team wanted to put Buu's bodypart in, I suppose it would be a binding attack like this one, so why not give vegeta a unique attack that he really needs? Even if this attack isn't considered, Vegeta does need something. Apparently no one read my idea, becuase I've explained the point (if it isn't obvious enough) and I already mentioned why it can't possibly be spammed.